2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Grosser Preis der Steiermark - Spielberg, 10 - 12 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:14 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:37 am
Vasconia wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:38 am


The team is so strong in every aspect that he doesn´t need to be a top leader, this is the reality.
The team is where it is because of Toto's leadership, not in spite of it. He's helped to build the structures and put the people in place and empower them to do their jobs well.
No. He just took over what was built by Ross Brawn.
You think the team today is the same as it was when Ross sold it? Really? :shock:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

tangodjango
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Re: 2020 Grosser Preis der Steiermark - Spielberg, 10 - 12 July

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:36 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:14 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:37 am


The team is where it is because of Toto's leadership, not in spite of it. He's helped to build the structures and put the people in place and empower them to do their jobs well.
No. He just took over what was built by Ross Brawn.
You think the team today is the same as it was when Ross sold it? Really? :shock:
Really you shouldn't bother engaging with obvious trolling.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Ridiculous to claim Toto isn't part of, or is even a detriment to Mercedes success.

I'd say he's by no means the greatest team principal there has ever been, but the team does not have such continued (or any) success without good leadership. Case in point- see Ferrari.

He handles the team, politics and the media, and leaves the technical and racing experts to get on with what they do best.

Seanspeed
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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FrukostScones wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:23 pm
I dont get it.
What is RIC'S problem.
He slept and left the door wide open. No matter if STR overshot. RIC send an invitation.
To ask for driver meeting discussion about this is laughable.
Also coming from RIC, a guy who loves to divebomb.
That is a way to lose you your good rep.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15061 ... s-briefing
If this doesn't get discussed and clarified, then it sets a really dangerous precedent in terms of what constitutes a valid overtake.

In no world should what Stroll did be allowed.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:23 pm
FrukostScones wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:23 pm
I dont get it.
What is RIC'S problem.
He slept and left the door wide open. No matter if STR overshot. RIC send an invitation.
To ask for driver meeting discussion about this is laughable.
Also coming from RIC, a guy who loves to divebomb.
That is a way to lose you your good rep.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15061 ... s-briefing
Ricciardos dive. bombs dont run both cars off the track. And as for the stroll incident, he has every right to complain about that. The door was only really open to a car that was likely to overshoot the corner. If Stroll had managed to stay in control, then he could have make the corner. As far as I can see, everything Ric said is spot on.

I agree, the thing is both ended up outside the track. Ric is because of Stroll. So, I think it is clear Stroll at the least pushed Ric outside the track. But it is also not that crazy of a try.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Racing 101: It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission. At that level, if you leave a gap, someone is going to try to take it. If you get penalized a spot or two, then it might not be the end of the world, especially in Lance's case as he was likely to be swallowed up by Norris anyway.

I'm sympathetic towards Daniel, and I agree, but he also left the door open and needs to move on.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Grosser Preis der Steiermark - Spielberg, 10 - 12 July

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:36 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:14 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:37 am


The team is where it is because of Toto's leadership, not in spite of it. He's helped to build the structures and put the people in place and empower them to do their jobs well.
No. He just took over what was built by Ross Brawn.
You think the team today is the same as it was when Ross sold it? Really? :shock:
Toto took a system created by Brawn's experience and ran with it.
Toto's experience building a F1 team was pretty much zero when he joined. He has enough of what it takes to run a winning team (see Flavio, arrivaebene ).. but not to build it.

Toto is no secret weapon. He will need a team that already has the ingredients in place.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Phil wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:23 am
There is a point to be made, that Toto inherited a lot from his predecessor (Brawn), but even after his departure, the team has enjoyed unprecedented success through one major rule change (2017).

I’s also put the managing of two very competitive drivers (Rosberg/Hamilton) down to his success and not letting the team tear itself apart.

He has said the right things in the press, both drivers (Bottas and Hamilton) are happy and motivated, the team has continued to dominate and even in times of mistakes, the handling of those has been nothing short of exemplary.

I attribute this all to Toto. IMHO he deserves most part of the credit. One could say that Hamilton also deserves some part of the credit for getting those wins in 2017 & 2018, but it took the team around him to make it happen.
I mean, everyone is free to have their opinion and that's fine with me. Here's mine-

A set up like Mercedes which has frankly become one of those factories in China where wins and titles are manufactured at a rate of knots was the brainchild of the great Ross Brawn & Norbert Haug. People often attribute credit to Brawn but not even mention Haug. Right from 2014-17 the Mercedes PU advantage was such that the others had no hope in hell of doing anything and because championships were over before the summer break, they always had head starts for the following year. The 'managing' drivers bit when it comes to Rosberg & Hamilton is outright hilarious as is the Bottas & Hamilton. Let us get one thing absolutely clear- Neither Rosberg, nor Bottas are on the same planet as Hamilton. The bloke is top 3 F1 drivers of all time. There is more than a reasonable argument about Rosberg taking the fight to Hamilton on Saturday but he couldn't do his shoe laces on a Sunday. It required an absolutely disastrous amount of reliability failures in 2016 for Lewis for Nico to become champion and he was racing no one else that year. Bottas is just a Mercedes sugar coated version of Barrichello. He is nowhere near Nico on Saturday and even worse than him on Sunday who Lewis already had covered. So, the only thing Toto needs to manage here is to ensure the radio between James and Valtteri is working. Pretty cheap cost for a brand like Mercedes.

In this tenure of 2014-20, Mercedes was really under immense pressure once which was for a limited period of time in 2018 and the bloke that really stood up and made it count was Lewis Hamilton. Toto Wolff had well and truly resorted to tables and microphones like in the WWE in this time. I think, he showed very well what sort of man he is then as did Hamilton.

Just to put it out there- I have ZERO issues with Mercedes winning and in the very least with Hamilton. If anything, I can't believe I am now a fan. Far cry from the thoughts I had of him in his McLaren days. Lewis is everything a sportsman should be and with this BLM my respect has grown even more. Sure, he says some PR drivel every now and then like they all do, but Toto takes the cake in this aspect too. The fall from grace will come, it always has and I personally can't wait to see it. Perfect example of that bloke in life who got there by chance and is now swimming in a pool of $ and fame.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Good points there Schuttelberg. Can’t say i agree with all of them, or at least i do, but the conclusion which i reach from them is different.

For example; yes, Mercedes benefitted massively from having a huge headstart in 2014 - 2016. For sure. One just has to look at where Williams was. But we now have 2020 and there has been a rather big rule change since and Team Mercedes is still as strong as ever. I’ll concede that Toto is only a part of what makes that team work, but it’s still an important one. A lot can go wrong if you aint cut for the job and when you are on top, the only way is doen. Toto does well what he must. And so far at least, that’s what he is doing.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

sosic2121
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Seanspeed wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:56 pm
In no world should what Stroll did be allowed.
+1

Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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The FIA ​​destroyed F1. You can't watch it anymore.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:49 am
Good points there Schuttelberg. Can’t say i agree with all of them, or at least i do, but the conclusion which i reach from them is different.

For example; yes, Mercedes benefitted massively from having a huge headstart in 2014 - 2016. For sure. One just has to look at where Williams was. But we now have 2020 and there has been a rather big rule change since and Team Mercedes is still as strong as ever. I’ll concede that Toto is only a part of what makes that team work, but it’s still an important one. A lot can go wrong if you aint cut for the job and when you are on top, the only way is doen. Toto does well what he must. And so far at least, that’s what he is doing.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 10UI4.html

Verstappen is 1+ seconds off Bottas. This is the continuous trolling of F1 fans I'm talking about.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Polarit
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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To claim Toto just continued something Brawn made given the hyper-competitive nature and the size of the teams/organizations and didn't have a dramatic input is just hilarious given the years of dominance. Come on....

The only way you maintain the level of dominance they've had is brilliant management that subdues the ego. The ego is something that usually eats most f1 teams..... Mercedes have managed to control it and keep going through different leaders.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Toto is a cog in agreat organization. Policies and procedures were mostly set. See malaysia 2013 how Brawn set the tone of racing between teammates that we see today.
Toto is a great manager. He really is. But this aint his brainchild. He took it and ran with it, enhanced it.
Compare with Williams. He couldn't penetrate Williams the way he wanted because of how the team was set.

Espresso
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Re: 2020 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 10-12 July

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:01 pm

A set up like Mercedes which has frankly become one of those factories in China where wins and titles are manufactured at a rate of knots was the brainchild of the great Ross Brawn & Norbert Haug. People often attribute credit to Brawn but not even mention Haug. Right from 2014-17 the Mercedes PU advantage was such that the others had no hope in hell of doing anything and because championships were over before the summer break, they always had head starts for the following year.
Merc is just playing the 'Power on Demand' principle of IBM.
an IBM rogue departement developed an AS/400, 10x cheaper and so much faster the the mainframes at that time.
To not destroy the market they just throttled down the machine. During the years computers got faster client could pay extra for a faster machine. Al a tech did was dial in a code and let the CPU run faster.

In a similar way that's what Merc is doing for years. They just release a bit more power every time they need it and come up with some cover story to explain the performance gain. Toto is just playing along the game.
Yes they do improve the engine bit by bit. But the underlying max performance of the Merc engine is not shown yet.
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