2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:25 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:05 pm

Extraordinary, really! So presumably every wet race now the mechanics from every team could just ‘accidentally’ leave a bunch of blowers on the track around the front of the car which just happen to be on. That’s what I’d do, and just claim it was an accident and they’d HAVE to accept that now they set a precedent.

And now it’s ok to run another car off the road, until it happens next race and all of a sudden it isn’t.

They must be able to see how silly they make themselves look with some of these decisions. It’s comparable in its insanity only to VAR in football as the reviewing system that still manages to get so much wrong or to be wildly inconsistent with applying or not applying the rules.
As your previous posts, and you in this post indeed highlighted, contradictions are common so the arguments about precedent are not as strong as they could be.

Personally I think people make too much of a big deal of things. They ask for common sense and then complain about inconsistency, they ask for zero-tolerance and then complain about idiocy. Its a hard job.
To give them their dues, it is a hard job adjudicating every single incident or contact that happens during races as it’s very rare that many incidents are identical. But it’s incredibly maddening when the rules seem to be applied differently for no apparent reason. They also act too much on the result of an incident rather then necessarily the incident itself.

No defence whatsoever though for allowing the RBR team to obviously dry the track or not penalising obvious jump starts- all this sensor rubbish notwithstanding. Same with track limits. These are fairly clean cut things that need to be done consistently.

SAEED
SAEED
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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Wynters wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:53 pm
Between that and Stroll...
"The driver of Car 18 made an attempt to overtake Car 3 on the inside on the approach
to turn 3, causing both cars to leave the track shortly after the apex of turn 3. After
reviewing the video evidence available, the Stewards determine that the incident is
considered a race incident."

...where they state that he caused both cars to leave the track but that it's totally fine.

Baffling.
Could be deemed as a racing incident if Stroll hadn't passed Ricciardo off track. Although still can be considered forcing off the track.

nzjrs
nzjrs
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:15 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:25 pm


Personally I think people make too much of a big deal of things. They ask for common sense and then complain about inconsistency, they ask for zero-tolerance and then complain about idiocy. Its a hard job.
Common sense and consistency are not mutually exclusive. One can apply common sense in a consistent fashion.
Sure, opinions differ too, on average I don't have any problems for example with the decisions nor the process this weekend.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:34 am


In that case, there is indeed a fair amount of leeway if the driver stages shallow (wheels just touching the starting line) so they could travel a bit further before they trigger the start/timing beam.
This "interesting tactic" was labeled "the Prost start" back in the 80s when he would regularly stage a bit behind the line and get a rolling start. Once the other drivers complained enough(and balastre was out) the FIA upgraded their start monitoring systems to outlaw this tactic. F1 can not have beams because of multiple cars on the grid. The system they use now is better, but not good enough.


Did anyone actually see BOT come back to a complete stop? I didn't. So what they are saying is that he didnt jump the start enough to trigger the sensors, so no penalty? How big is the tolerance?
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:44 am
That Vettel fellow isn't doing too poorly! All that talk of Leclerc thrashing him.. been even in their time together.
VET made 2 more mistakes, going wide twice and letting ALB by both times. LEC was ahead of VET and driving better than him, only the poor tire strategy for LEC ler VET ahead.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:06 pm
This is a very entertaining conversation. If only I could measure its entertainment value and determine if it was too funny to be allowed. First I would need a funnyness sensor and then some sort of threshold, and then I would need some tolerance of that sensor relative to a threshold, and an enforcement body and punishment guidelines.
You could always see if it was funny on 4K video unless the rules don’t allow it :wink:

dans79
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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It's amazing how far ahead Lewis is before he catches up to traffic in sector 3.

161 97 92 6

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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turn 4 and 11, both cars are almost identical, medium speed and traction the W11 is in another league

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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Mchamilton wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:56 pm


turn 4 and 11, both cars are almost identical, medium speed and traction the W11 is in another league
What is most interesting is that the W10 is actually quicker in a straight line.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:04 am
Mchamilton wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:56 pm


turn 4 and 11, both cars are almost identical, medium speed and traction the W11 is in another league
What is most interesting is that the W10 is actually quicker in a straight line.
Likely a lower downforce setup so a bit less drag.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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So coming back to Bottas' false start, it seems at the moment the lights went off, his wheel was still on the yellow start marker and behind the end of the start box:

Image

He moved around half the width of that line before the lights were off. This is probably why the sensor did not trip.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:51 pm
It's amazing how far ahead Lewis is before he catches up to traffic in sector 3.

Thats not even the fastest lap from 2020!? Formula 1 can't even get that right. The lap they show there was Lewis' first flying lap after his last stop (lap 68 I think) oh F1 people #-o
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:51 pm
It's amazing how far ahead Lewis is before he catches up to traffic in sector 3.

The video is badly sync'd - Hamilton's ahead by some margin at the start of the video. Also, shame they used the wrong lap, and cut off half of the image.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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mertol
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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e30ernest wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:32 am
So coming back to Bottas' false start, it seems at the moment the lights went off, his wheel was still on the yellow start marker and behind the end of the start box:

https://i.imgur.com/haw9cxo.png

He moved around half the width of that line before the lights were off. This is probably why the sensor did not trip.
That wheel is between the yellow line and the white line. Also he never came to a complete stop. In other words useless sensors but that was already known.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2020 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 17-19

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mertol wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:30 am
e30ernest wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:32 am
So coming back to Bottas' false start, it seems at the moment the lights went off, his wheel was still on the yellow start marker and behind the end of the start box:

https://i.imgur.com/haw9cxo.png

He moved around half the width of that line before the lights were off. This is probably why the sensor did not trip.
That wheel is between the yellow line and the white line. Also he never came to a complete stop. In other words useless sensors but that was already known.
Actually, the wheel was more or less at the last quarter of the line's width (so still within the yellow line). This is as close I can get it on YT, probably 1-2 frames after the light goes off:

Image

I'm not saying he shouldn't be penalized (I think he should have, and so did Vettel), but him still being within that yellow line probably saved him. I guess the sensor takes the whole width of that line into account since drivers won't stop perfectly at the center of that line (they could be slightly forward or behind). Then add some wiggle-room for potential jerks from the clutch.