2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Phil wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 15:28


From those 5 races however, only 1 race was ever down to merit and this was this race here. Just one. And with this one, they had an ace up their sleeve because Mercedes was napping in Q2 when they easily could have qualified on the hards as well, giving them an advantage that might have been enough to win this race too.
RedBull could afford to roll the dice on the Q2 tyre. If the Mercs had done that and flat spotted a hard in Q2, for example, they'd have been effectively out of the race before it even started. The RedBull could make the plan work because they had tyre life that Mercedes had no chance of matching. Effectively, Mercedes did the only thing they could in qualifying. They had no choice.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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I think they did that for another reason (yellow in Q2). They wanted to make sure both drivers retained P1 and 2 at race start, the softer tire gives a better chance of doing so.

Mchamilton
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 15:00
Jolle wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 13:54
We had this odd race every year... the competition can grasp for air and have some hope... and Mercedes goes for the kill.
Fun thought: Max won on Sunday because he had the best car. 8)



That's a bit tongue in cheek and aimed at those who say the same about Hamilton, but the reality is that Max's car was the best car on Sunday. Had it not been, he wouldn't have won.
exactly lol dont see whats so difficult to understand about that for some people

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dans79
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 16:41
Phil wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 15:28


From those 5 races however, only 1 race was ever down to merit and this was this race here. Just one. And with this one, they had an ace up their sleeve because Mercedes was napping in Q2 when they easily could have qualified on the hards as well, giving them an advantage that might have been enough to win this race too.
RedBull could afford to roll the dice on the Q2 tyre. If the Mercs had done that and flat spotted a hard in Q2, for example, they'd have been effectively out of the race before it even started. The RedBull could make the plan work because they had tyre life that Mercedes had no chance of matching. Effectively, Mercedes did the only thing they could in qualifying. They had no choice.
Honestly, I think a larger portion of the issues seen yesterday is down to the Merc drivers and to an extent the team only focusing on the inter team battle. I think the drivers and their sides of the garage have been putting far to much set-up emphasis on securing pole. After all, It's still the best way of beating your teammate in the same car.

I expect the senior engineers will hold the reins tighter going forward, and the gap in qualifying to the rest of the field will come down, but the gap in race pace will grow when temperature isn't a concern, or hold steady when it is.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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zibby43 wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 20:46
aral wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 19:34
dans79 wrote:
09 Aug 2020, 19:31
In my opinion, Merc failed today, because they put too much emphasis on going as fast as possible. They had the car set up accordingly as could be seen by their qualifying advantage. If they had instead optimized for stint length and taking care of the tires the qualifying gap would have been much smaller but they would have not had the problems they had during the race.
Are you saying that merc were overstraining their cars and that they are not as fast as the Red Bull? The RB was going everybit as fast but was not being overdriven so as to destroy its tyres.
It's not a matter of over-driving. Or tire degradation. It was a matter of blistering today.

Blistering occurs when a tire overheats. The excess heat causes the tread to soften, and then it starts to break away.

What factors can cause overheating? Several, but 2 of the most important are: 1) over-inflation and 2) high track temperatures. The third factor is how much the car is asking from the tires, and the Merc demands a lot due to the downforce it generates, but it is a very well-sorted car on the suspension front, which is why, the vast majority of the time since '19, Merc has had class-leading tire wear.

I also don't think there is anything Mercedes could've done in qualifying to make themselves slower in qualifying, and subsequently faster in the race. Those setup choices and the trade off between race and quali pace are more relevant when it comes to degradation, not an anomaly like blistering.

Kind of like how Mercedes goes with a low rake concept to be well-rounded and fast at the majority of circuits on the calendar, they design the car/suspension to consistently energize/work with the harder compounds that are used on race day, in a temperature range that best represents most of the calendar.

For whatever reason, the Red Bull struggles to get the best out of their car in the circumstances that apply to the vast majority of races, but on those one-off days when the tires are pumped up to levels approaching the PSI of a 19" road car tire and the track temperatures are 40+ C, the car just suddenly works.
Your concept of how downforce affects tyres is wrong.
More downforce can help tyre life in most situations because the tyre slides less.
RedBullwas actually running more downforce than Mercedes this race. Martin Brundle corroborated this.

On the flipside if that additional downforce is used to take corners at acessive speeds then the tyre will be worked much much harder which can lead to blistering so it is how u use the downforce and how u work / cool the tyres.

Mercedes car probably has a tyre cooling problem or works the tyre differently. Historically their cars always had bad tyre eating habits independent of downforce! It is difficult to say if its aero-related, wheel and brake duct related, or suspension kinematics related because if it were that easy they would have figured it out by now.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Hmm i think some team cheat with the tyre pressures. The rims have a device that controls tyre pressure. Maybe a platically yielding membrane of sorts.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 17:15
Hmm i think some team cheat with the tyre pressures. The rims have a device that controls tyre pressure. Maybe a platically yielding membrane of sorts.
Are the scoring cars not inspected for such things after the race? Had Max dived in for a quickie on the last coupe of laps, I may suspect, but he finished on his best tyres.

Or are you baiting :evil: :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

djones
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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It was really nice to see Max win and will be a serious kick up the ass for Mercedes.

Tyre issues aside, in my opinion, they blew any chance of a win by trying to be fair among the drivers. Had they accepted Hamilton is the much better driver throughout a race distance and let him pass Bottas early on they might have won.

They were concentrating so hard on not upsetting Bottas that any chance of a win quite literally disappeared up the road.

An excellent result for Hamilton nonetheless. Finishing ahead of the only real true competitor (over a season) and getting fastest lap as a bonus point.

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etusch
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Image

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dans79
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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This has already been covered.

1) the telemetry is not in sync with the video.
2) It's not your speed after you cross the line that counts. 2 lines exist, it's your speed between them that matters.
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etusch
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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dans79 wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 18:16
This has already been covered.

1) the telemetry is not in sync with the video.
2) It's not your speed after you cross the line that counts. 2 lines exist, it's your speed between them that matters.
I don't say he speeded at speed limit area but his entrence to the zone make us suspicious about that.

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dans79
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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etusch wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 18:35
I don't say he speeded at speed limit area but his entrence to the zone make us suspicious about that.
I didn't say that you did.
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lh13
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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I don't know what is with Hamilton fans. Yes Merc / Hamilton are unbeatable over the course of a season, but others cannot just pack up and go home. You people can't stand anyone having even some 'hope' of a competitive season. What the hell are you even doing on this forum if you can't discuss / stand others' opinions?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Big Tea wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 17:28
PlatinumZealot wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 17:15
Hmm i think some team cheat with the tyre pressures. The rims have a device that controls tyre pressure. Maybe a platically yielding membrane of sorts.
Are the scoring cars not inspected for such things after the race? Had Max dived in for a quickie on the last coupe of laps, I may suspect, but he finished on his best tyres.

Or are you baiting :evil: :mrgreen:
I say guilty until proven innocent. I'm with Lewis on this one. RedBull wheels must be handed over to FIA for inspection.
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GPR-A
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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lh13 wrote:
10 Aug 2020, 18:38
I don't know what is with Hamilton fans. Yes Merc / Hamilton are unbeatable over the course of a season, but others cannot just pack up and go home. You people can't stand anyone having even some 'hope' of a competitive season. What the hell are you even doing on this forum if you can't discuss / stand others' opinions?
There is a difference in HOPING for competitive season (the grounds of which is questionable) and utter BS downplaying Mercedes' car performance in downright ugly manner. For some people, this past race result is way to throw up their long held frustration.

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