2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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wesley123
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:16 pm
wesley123 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:55 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:41 pm
yeah, to me thats about 1.9m. what the hell are you looking at 🙄???
Maybe you could annotate on the image where the 1.9m is, because I'm not seeing it
The rules state you must leave a cars width if a car is alongside. So Perez had to leave a cars width for Gasly. Perez left almost a cars width, as it looked like he and gasly almost touched wheels, and gasly had to go on to the white line. Maybe Perez even left a perfect 200cm, but we can't really tell. Sergio left 1.9m at least.

https://i.imgur.com/F2G8HP2.png
leaving a car width is a consequent rule, but so is a barrier. Leaving a certain width isn't necessarily an issue, however leaving this width on this section with a full throttle corner coming up where a driver died last year makes a bit of a difference. Outside of that, there isn't really much reason to squeeze a driver on that point of the track, as through the upcoming corner one of them has to yield.
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:29 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:49 am
I don't tend to take team radio's too seriously as its heat of the moment stuff. However, when they become as cluttered and dysfunctional as it is at Ferrari, it's alarming. Every week there's a new dose of nonsense and it's happening on either side of the garage.
Something is very seriously broken in that camp. I'm not one of those guys who thinks 'change' or calling for people's heads is an answer to issues but there has to be a RESET done over there and I know one bloke is leaving but they need to trust their drivers more and communicate plans with them very clearly. The drivers CANNOT be your chief strategists on the fly. You have to improvise and keep changing as per the situation in a race, yes, but the directive needs to come from the pit wall and not the cockpit.
Totally. It's a complete mess from top to bottom and the drivers are clearly both fed up. The Vettel thing with strategy in Spain was ridiculous. They either didn't know or they purposely didn't help him. Both of which things are poor beyond belief for any team, let alone Ferrari
The amazing thing even now is that both the driver's sound very calm and real about the whole situation outside the cockpit but Binotto is talking all sorts of rubbish even though he does not drive the car.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

dans79
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:24 pm
but Binotto is talking all sorts of rubbish even though he does not drive the car.
Probably because he knows that everyone knows he is a substantial architect of this fiasco.
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:35 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:24 pm
but Binotto is talking all sorts of rubbish even though he does not drive the car.
Probably because he knows that everyone knows he is a substantial architect of this fiasco.
May be accept things and help the whole team move on? The longer he offers pathetic excuses, the more stories and pressure manifests. He's frankly just resorted Ferrari and himself to 2022 or bust.

I still feel that with the resources available to Ferrari, a lot of strength can be built in such tumultuous times which ultimately define your character when you come face to face with the pressures of fighting for a world championship. I just don't think there's enough character building going on in the Scuderia at the moment.

Alright, today he can attribute blame upon (in this case) Sebastian for 2015-21 but it doesn't seem as if Charlie is very calm inside the kitchen although he's doing a very fine job and putting on a brave face in front of us via the media. Too often, the drivers are defending the sh!t storm in the squad and when the driver needs it after 3-4 years, it goes pear shaped and the only solution they seem to have is sacking the lead driver (Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso & Vettel.) These guys didn't become world champions by fluke. The unrest is within, the drivers have all actually been the saving grace just like Charles at the moment.

Just to add- Hearing Seb after Spa, he could have thrown some mud at the outcome like Mattia did after one of the Silverstone races but he defended the team and tried to calm things down. He has no reason to and he is well liked and respected in the paddock. I just feel that the environment there needs to be a two way street and it's all one way traffic right now. If they build a Mercedes for 2022, this is a moot point although even that could go to sh!t if Sainz switches it on from the get go. Mattia has been quite a sham at managing the 'employees' that push those pedals on the track.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

dans79
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
I just don't think there's enough character building going on in the Scuderia at the moment.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
Too often, the drivers are defending the sh!t storm in the squad and when the driver needs it after 3-4 years, it goes pear shaped and the only solution they seem to have is sacking the lead driver (Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso & Vettel.)
I think the underlying issue is cultural. Every time something doesn't go as planned the solution always seems to be fire someone or force them to quit!
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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They need more Sbinnala!
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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:40 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
I just don't think there's enough character building going on in the Scuderia at the moment.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
Too often, the drivers are defending the sh!t storm in the squad and when the driver needs it after 3-4 years, it goes pear shaped and the only solution they seem to have is sacking the lead driver (Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso & Vettel.)
I think the underlying issue is cultural. Every time something doesn't go as planned the solution always seems to be fire someone or force them to quit!
I do not like the way he said it is everyone's fault. Those actually making the car and engine are doing what they should, if the plans were not good enough that is not their fault, or the pit crew etc, and make them feel bad.

This is the opposite of what Toto and Hamilton take great care to stress, that is, that everyone involved from low to high is doing a good job and make them feel good. The last thing Ferrari need now is an unhappy workforce.
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dans79
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Kimi is getting feisty lately.
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/01/he- ... zis-crash/
Raikkonen: Yeah I can get very close to him here in the middle but…
Raikkonen: {Seconds later} Yeah he’s off.
Raikkonen: Should have fu***** let me past. He pushed a lot. It’s probably Safety Car?
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Wass85
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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It's a shame seeing Kimi as an also-ran, fairplay to the fella if he's still enjoying himself but surely he's a shadow of what once was.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Wass85 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:59 pm
It's a shame seeing Kimi as an also-ran, fairplay to the fella if he's still enjoying himself but surely he's a shadow of what once was.
Yes, that's why he was able to beat two Ferrari's in an Alfa Romeo. Nobody in their right frame of mind would say Kimi is an 'also ran' based on his performances against Giovinazzi.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Ringleheim
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:40 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
I just don't think there's enough character building going on in the Scuderia at the moment.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
Too often, the drivers are defending the sh!t storm in the squad and when the driver needs it after 3-4 years, it goes pear shaped and the only solution they seem to have is sacking the lead driver (Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso & Vettel.)
I think the underlying issue is cultural. Every time something doesn't go as planned the solution always seems to be fire someone or force them to quit!
"Culture" whatever that means, doesn't make a car go fast.

What makes a car go fast is a whole bunch of really clever engineers.

Ferrari haven't had their share of them for many years now.

There is such a sea of F1 talent floating around England these days and then there is Ferrari out on its own island in Italy. I wonder if the sport has advanced to the point where Italy just can't go it alone anymore.

I.E., Ferrari is at an inherent disadvantage as a result of being in Italy and not in the Green Belt.

Ringleheim
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:49 am
I don't tend to take team radio's too seriously as its heat of the moment stuff. However, when they become as cluttered and dysfunctional as it is at Ferrari, it's alarming. Every week there's a new dose of nonsense and it's happening on either side of the garage.
Something is very seriously broken in that camp. I'm not one of those guys who thinks 'change' or calling for people's heads is an answer to issues but there has to be a RESET done over there and I know one bloke is leaving but they need to trust their drivers more and communicate plans with them very clearly. The drivers CANNOT be your chief strategists on the fly. You have to improvise and keep changing as per the situation in a race, yes, but the directive needs to come from the pit wall and not the cockpit.
Do you really think the drivers at Ferrari are the chief strategists on the fly?

Come on, man.

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ringo
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:56 pm
Kimi is getting feisty lately.
https://www.racefans.net/2020/09/01/he- ... zis-crash/
Raikkonen: Yeah I can get very close to him here in the middle but…
Raikkonen: {Seconds later} Yeah he’s off.
Raikkonen: Should have fu***** let me past. He pushed a lot. It’s probably Safety Car?
If Hamilton said this... :o
For Sure!!

dans79
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Ringleheim wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:30 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:40 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
I just don't think there's enough character building going on in the Scuderia at the moment.
Schuttelberg wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:27 pm
Too often, the drivers are defending the sh!t storm in the squad and when the driver needs it after 3-4 years, it goes pear shaped and the only solution they seem to have is sacking the lead driver (Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso & Vettel.)
I think the underlying issue is cultural. Every time something doesn't go as planned the solution always seems to be fire someone or force them to quit!
"Culture" whatever that means, doesn't make a car go fast.
cultural -relating to the ideas, customs, and social behavior of a society.

In the context of how I used it, it means the following:

Ferrari's culture, is always to fire people when something doesn't go right, or force them out.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

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Ringleheim wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:30 am
"Culture" whatever that means, doesn't make a car go fast.

What makes a car go fast is a whole bunch of really clever engineers.

Ferrari haven't had their share of them for many years now.

There is such a sea of F1 talent floating around England these days and then there is Ferrari out on its own island in Italy. I wonder if the sport has advanced to the point where Italy just can't go it alone anymore.

I.E., Ferrari is at an inherent disadvantage as a result of being in Italy and not in the Green Belt.
The engineers alone won't make it happen. The engineers need to be in an environment that nurtures them and brings out the best in them. This is management 101 stuff really.

As for the personnel, you may be right if the team is all from Italy with little/no additions from elsewhere. The other top teams have a number of people from various places, not just the UK, which will help bring in talent/ideas. I'd be surprised if Ferrari was top-to-bottom Italian. I can see the allure of Ferrari being enough to get people to travel to Italy to work for them. Whether they then stay is down to the culture of the team and how they feel wanted etc. by the team. Which is where we started. 8)

When Ross Brawn was putting together the team in the late 90s, he reached out to just about everyone in F1 trying to get the brightest and the best. He was asking people to join the team even before he had a properly defined role for them in some cases. He wanted a melting pot of people and ideas. It obviously worked.
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