So you don't care about the safety of the drivers and marshals... I can't reason with that.hollus wrote: ↑10 Sep 2020, 17:01
I am serious, ispano. Why the need to ask? Are you suggesting that I am... nevermind.
I had never seen the details of Billy Monger's crash. Now I have since you pointed it out and yes, it makes it clear that crashing onto a static car can neglect the presence of crash structures if the angle is just wrong. So point completely conceded and something learnt. Clearly leaving the car there is not the best plan.
I disagree on Bianchi, though, the problem there was precisely trying to remove the car. But irrelevant in any case in view of Monger's accident.Are you serious? The furthest from a Hamilton or Mercedes fan here (hint: Asturias). I couldn't care less if Hamilton won or lost, on merit or by luck. It bothers me, though, that everyone seems to be categorized into pro or anti Hamilton, pro or anti Ferrari, etc. I (am many others here) just like the high speed chess games, the engineering marvels at work and the drivers doing the seemingly impossible with said marvels. Well, and asturian drivers, of course.People shouldn't ask for rules changes just because their favorite driver and team was penalized ...
I said "People", not necessary "You". Don't take it so personally.It bothers me, though, that everyone seems to be categorized into pro or anti Hamilton, pro or anti Ferrari, etc
I disagree on Bianchi, though, the problem there was precisely trying to remove the car.
It bothers me more that people make irresponsible comments regarding safety protocols.I fully agree, a second cat going to the same spot was unlikely.
No, there is a delta in the event notes. It was introduced after that faithful Suzuka race for obvious reasons.
BAD KARMA hitting for those who didn't do a good HOME WORK! I agree.ispano6 wrote: ↑06 Sep 2020, 22:46There is no why, there just is. Good Karma came from diligence and Bad Karma from arrogance. If anyone feels crappy about the results of the race, maybe they deserve to feel that way. Alpha Tauri ebbed and flowed with good Karma, Red Bull likely had some bad Karma. Good decision making led to Good Karma, bad decision making led to Bad Karma. Are you going to ask "BUT WHY?" again? If so, direct your question to those responsible for the Bad Karma and arrogance and decision making! Sometimes people need to eat a slice of humble pie or their own words. Like those who trash talked Honda PU being slower than the Renault "lump" in the back of the McLaren. Surely Bottas should have won the race if the Mercedes car was so dominant. People here were calling the race even before it happened. I said wait until the race is over. Abiteboul said that Red Bull missed the "trick" of not being a PU manufacturer and car builder in one. Well look what the small budget Alpha Tauri team was able to pull off. If anything, Alpha Tauri has had more time to work with Honda as a partner and the notion of "customer" team isn't here as they get equal support and treatment with Red Bull through Red Bull Technologies.El Scorchio wrote: ↑06 Sep 2020, 19:10Yes but again WHY did some deserve good karma and some deserve bad karma? This is what is not being understood?
I could say "eat crow" or "what goes around comes around", would you understand that?
Moore77 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 20:11It's the usual rule of the human history that those in power, can afford to be arrogant. Mercedes have more good reasons to be arrogant as rule change after rule change, nothing is stopping them. By the time they fall, I am sure the legacy would something that the F1 would never forget. So more than saying, how the might have fallen, they would probably remembered as "How great that team was". They endured frustrating few years, toiling in the mid field and facing a great deal of embarrassment before taking the F1 by storm. For as long as they last in the way they are, they can afford to be arrogant and the world can simply watch on.Schuttelberg wrote: ↑05 Sep 2020, 19:49I love how Mercedes are pretending that the party mode ban makes them stronger. I can bet my last bottom dollar that the snake Wolff would never have been using it the other way round if it was so. What is scary is how much faster Mercedes would be if they had the modes.
The arrogance can be smelt from a distance. One day this will end, and the saying 'how the mighty have fallen' will imply.
Will they have the guts to stay and fight it out or will they go home?
100% correct, so why did Masi allow the Haas to be pushed across a live track when the SC had only just been called, the field hadn't yet bunched up behind the SC and cars were likely to be diving for the pits. He screwed up, closing the pit lane was a panic reaction when he realised what was going to happen, if it had all been part of the plan they would have closed the pit lane and announced the SC at the same time, or they would have waited until every was bunched up behind the SC before trying to recover the Haas.Jolle wrote: ↑10 Sep 2020, 19:40For everybody who thinks that a VSC or even just yellow flags would be ok for marshals to be on track recovering a car..... a few laps prior a car became a projectile because of a complete fail of brakes. With a SC you have a relative long period where you're sure that there isn't a car on track near you.
That no body at Mercedes read the circuit notes closely, is their problem.
Don’t know if you can call it “screwed up” by Masi.Diesel wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 10:45100% correct, so why did Masi allow the Haas to be pushed across a live track when the SC had only just been called, the field hadn't yet bunched up behind the SC and cars were likely to be diving for the pits. He screwed up, closing the pit lane was a panic reaction when he realised what was going to happen, if it had all been part of the plan they would have closed the pit lane and announced the SC at the same time, or they would have waited until every was bunched up behind the SC before trying to recover the Haas.Jolle wrote: ↑10 Sep 2020, 19:40For everybody who thinks that a VSC or even just yellow flags would be ok for marshals to be on track recovering a car..... a few laps prior a car became a projectile because of a complete fail of brakes. With a SC you have a relative long period where you're sure that there isn't a car on track near you.
That no body at Mercedes read the circuit notes closely, is their problem.
One of the commentators was saying that one of the midfield teams use a bit of software that monitors all of the info coming from the FIA / stewards and flags up pit lane closures and the like. Seems other teams are now doing the same thing, so it's likely we won't see the same mistake made again by any team.
Simple, a 5 second penalty for crossing the pitlane line. Doesn’t matter from what side you cross the line.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 11:23One of the commentators was saying that one of the midfield teams use a bit of software that monitors all of the info coming from the FIA / stewards and flags up pit lane closures and the like. Seems other teams are now doing the same thing, so it's likely we won't see the same mistake made again by any team.
It would be interesting to know that the stewards would do if the pit lane was closed after a driver had committed to the pits but not yet entered them i.e. he was in the pit entry lane but not past the pit lane speed limit line. If he rejoined the track to avoid the now closed pit lane (in the opposite way to Kimi in Mugello), would they penalise him? The driver would be "damned if he did, damned if he didn't".
Yes, but the driver could claim force majeure in that the pit lane was closed after he committed to the lane. In other words, the FIA made him break a rule - either the pit lane line crossing rule, or the pit lane closed rule.Jolle wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 11:40Simple, a 5 second penalty for crossing the pitlane line. Doesn’t matter from what side you cross the line.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 11:23One of the commentators was saying that one of the midfield teams use a bit of software that monitors all of the info coming from the FIA / stewards and flags up pit lane closures and the like. Seems other teams are now doing the same thing, so it's likely we won't see the same mistake made again by any team.
It would be interesting to know that the stewards would do if the pit lane was closed after a driver had committed to the pits but not yet entered them i.e. he was in the pit entry lane but not past the pit lane speed limit line. If he rejoined the track to avoid the now closed pit lane (in the opposite way to Kimi in Mugello), would they penalise him? The driver would be "damned if he did, damned if he didn't".
If the light goes red at the moment the driver is already committed, the logical outcome would be to allow it.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 12:02Yes, but the driver could claim force majeure in that the pit lane was closed after he committed to the lane. In other words, the FIA made him break a rule - either the pit lane line crossing rule, or the pit lane closed rule.Jolle wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 11:40Simple, a 5 second penalty for crossing the pitlane line. Doesn’t matter from what side you cross the line.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2020, 11:23
One of the commentators was saying that one of the midfield teams use a bit of software that monitors all of the info coming from the FIA / stewards and flags up pit lane closures and the like. Seems other teams are now doing the same thing, so it's likely we won't see the same mistake made again by any team.
It would be interesting to know that the stewards would do if the pit lane was closed after a driver had committed to the pits but not yet entered them i.e. he was in the pit entry lane but not past the pit lane speed limit line. If he rejoined the track to avoid the now closed pit lane (in the opposite way to Kimi in Mugello), would they penalise him? The driver would be "damned if he did, damned if he didn't".
I would expect that the driver would get away with crossing the line to rejoin the track in such a circumstance, so long as it was done carefully and didn't impede other cars.
The pitlane was closed 12 seconds before car 44 entered the pitlane (mentioned in this doc here https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... 20lane.pdf), not at the same time as the SC was called.