2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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siskue2005
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:06 pm
Where would a VSC have helped?
With a VSC there would have been the same and correct closure of the pit lane. Hamilton would have still entered the pits and the Ham fans would still be crying for this precious loss.And I am convinced that pushing the car next to the main straight is still the point where one should not race but have a real SC looking at the thread for the Marshalls.
But what was the hurry to roll the car which is safely parked near an orange barrier (which are one of many designated parking area for cars during a GP) to the pit lane? what was the hurry? this was not testing that the car needs to reach the garage as soon as possible to run it again!
Why were they so much hurry to push a car to pit lane in the fastest turn in the circuit?

THey could have pushed the car back (i was baffled to see there was no room for that) then why the orange barrier there, if the marshalls wanted to use it as a picnic area?

If they wanted the car to be pushed out into the pit lane (the most dangerous option), then they should have waited until everyone caught up to safety car and THEN CLOSE THE PIT LANE and move the stranded car into the pits.

But instead they closed the pit lane and immediately tried to move the car instead of waiting for every car to close up and make a gap!

And please "Hamilton fan will be crying for this precious loss" comment, ofcourse if that had happened to Leclerc or any other driver, i m sure same would have happened. And yes it was robbed coz the are in that position on merit and to lose it is definitely a loss for any driver.
For me it is anyways the other way round: If FIA would like to screw the Mercs, they would send the Safety Car quick out of the pits. In all recent races they waited half a lap. Like this no one was caught behind the SC.
Example this week...when Ham crossed the pits he was given a free stop, they could have changed the whole car in this time as the SC was send out after Ham and before Bot...
The SC needs to time to get started and get out of the pit, it is not an instant thing which would appear where ever it needs to appear, it cant immediately appear on the track. There is a minimum time with which it needs to go out, and the car is not as fast as the F1 cars and mostly it would not be able to catch the leader. It is not like the FIA asks them to wait for 30 sec before it goes out :lol:

In Mugello, the safety car was announced when Lewis was past the pit lane entry, which made him miss a free pitstop, everyone else pitted. by the time the SC came out lewis was at turn 7, which allowed them to make the pit stop on the next lap. However the people who came through the pit had to slow down for the SC because they caught it at turn 1. It is not like the FIA did any favor for Lewis there, it was just luck that he got the pitstops done like others. Mostly i would say FIA tried to screw the leader and cause an artificial results like they did in Monza.

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:56 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:06 pm
Where would a VSC have helped?
With a VSC there would have been the same and correct closure of the pit lane. Hamilton would have still entered the pits and the Ham fans would still be crying for this precious loss.And I am convinced that pushing the car next to the main straight is still the point where one should not race but have a real SC looking at the thread for the Marshalls.
But what was the hurry to roll the car which is safely parked near an orange barrier (which are one of many designated parking area for cars during a GP) to the pit lane? what was the hurry? this was not testing that the car needs to reach the garage as soon as possible to run it again!
Why were they so much hurry to push a car to pit lane in the fastest turn in the circuit?

THey could have pushed the car back (i was baffled to see there was no room for that) then why the orange barrier there, if the marshalls wanted to use it as a picnic area?

If they wanted the car to be pushed out into the pit lane (the most dangerous option), then they should have waited until everyone caught up to safety car and THEN CLOSE THE PIT LANE and move the stranded car into the pits.

But instead they closed the pit lane and immediately tried to move the car instead of waiting for every car to close up and make a gap!

And please "Hamilton fan will be crying for this precious loss" comment, ofcourse if that had happened to Leclerc or any other driver, i m sure same would have happened. And yes it was robbed coz the are in that position on merit and to lose it is definitely a loss for any driver.
For me it is anyways the other way round: If FIA would like to screw the Mercs, they would send the Safety Car quick out of the pits. In all recent races they waited half a lap. Like this no one was caught behind the SC.
Example this week...when Ham crossed the pits he was given a free stop, they could have changed the whole car in this time as the SC was send out after Ham and before Bot...
The SC needs to time to get started and get out of the pit, it is not an instant thing which would appear where ever it needs to appear, it cant immediately appear on the track. There is a minimum time with which it needs to go out, and the car is not as fast as the F1 cars and mostly it would not be able to catch the leader. It is not like the FIA asks them to wait for 30 sec before it goes out :lol:

In Mugello, the safety car was announced when Lewis was past the pit lane entry, which made him miss a free pitstop, everyone else pitted. by the time the SC came out lewis was at turn 7, which allowed them to make the pit stop on the next lap. However the people who came through the pit had to slow down for the SC because they caught it at turn 1. It is not like the FIA did any favor for Lewis there, it was just luck that he got the pitstops done like others. Mostly i would say FIA tried to screw the leader and cause an artificial results like they did in Monza.
Man...it is always the same with you...you do not know nothing about F1.

The safety car is standing close to the pit exit with a running engine. With each accident it gets a "safety car stand-by" message, which means lights on, 1st gear in. With the "safety car deployed" message it started in the past full speed to the safety car line 2. This means it goes to this line in 5-10sec easily. In the past they send out the safety car immediately, remember the incident when Ham could overtake before the SC2 line and Alonso did not. Both were in the last corner when it was deployed.
Today they hold it back on purpose. Ham was 12 sec away from the pit exit, did a full pitstop with nearly 30sec and still was not caught by the SC in Monza. In Mugello Bot was 5 sec behind Ham, who was about 5sec away from pit entry. Plus the pitstop he was coming out seconds behind the SC...

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am


Today they hold it back on purpose. In Mugello Bot was 5 sec behind Ham, who was about 5sec away from pit entry. Plus the pitstop he was coming out seconds behind the SC...
So they held it back on purpose. 13 seconds it took from the yellow flag to go to a full safety car, and your calling that "held back on purpose" .
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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On another note, Russell was so unlucky. Looking at the timing befor the Safety Car was called, Russell was 4 seconds ahead of Vettel, lapping the same time, and Russell had 1 lap newer same compound tyres. Kimi who stole a few points was 18 seconds behind Russell, on 2 lap older same compound tyres. Leclerc would have got Russell as he was on 4 lap old Mediums, but the way Leclerc was chewing up his tyres, would he have managed another 15 laps on those tyres ? who knows. Kimi was so lucky on sunday. Williams and Russell deserved it so much more.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am


Today they hold it back on purpose. In Mugello Bot was 5 sec behind Ham, who was about 5sec away from pit entry. Plus the pitstop he was coming out seconds behind the SC...
So they held it back on purpose. 13 seconds it took from the yellow flag to go to a full safety car, and your calling that "held back on purpose" .
From "safety car deployed" for the track to "safety car deployed" to the safety car it was at least 30sec. In the past it was the same command and the marshalls and safety car got it at the same time...today they hold it back and send the car much later than the marshalling signals. I do not know what you mean with the yellow flag.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:58 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am


Today they hold it back on purpose. In Mugello Bot was 5 sec behind Ham, who was about 5sec away from pit entry. Plus the pitstop he was coming out seconds behind the SC...
So they held it back on purpose. 13 seconds it took from the yellow flag to go to a full safety car, and your calling that "held back on purpose" .
From "safety car deployed" for the track to "safety car deployed" to the safety car it was at least 30sec. In the past it was the same command and the marshalls and safety car got it at the same time...today they hold it back and send the car much later than the marshalling signals. I do not know what you mean with the yellow flag.
For a start, when the safety car was deployed by race control, Lewis Hamilton was 1 second away from the start line doing 170mph+, so there was no chance of Lewis ever being behind the safety car. Then you say it was at least 30 seconds (suggesting more than 30 seconds) , but 30 seconds after the Safety Car was deployed on the live timing the safety car was sat up at the entry of turn 1 waiting to pick up the leader. You are saying the safety car waiting 30 seconds in the pitlane before it went out ?

As for the yellow flag comment, I was saying once Stroll went off and yellow flags went out (which is almost always instantly as a car goes off) it took 13 seconds for race control to announce the safety car. It was then 1 second after that , that Lewis crossed the start line to complete his lap.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:58 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 am


So they held it back on purpose. 13 seconds it took from the yellow flag to go to a full safety car, and your calling that "held back on purpose" .
From "safety car deployed" for the track to "safety car deployed" to the safety car it was at least 30sec. In the past it was the same command and the marshalls and safety car got it at the same time...today they hold it back and send the car much later than the marshalling signals. I do not know what you mean with the yellow flag.
For a start, when the safety car was deployed by race control, Lewis Hamilton was 1 second away from the start line doing 170mph+, so there was no chance of Lewis ever being behind the safety car. Then you say it was at least 30 seconds (suggesting more than 30 seconds) , but 30 seconds after the Safety Car was deployed on the live timing the safety car was sat up at the entry of turn 1 waiting to pick up the leader. You are saying the safety car waiting 30 seconds in the pitlane before it went out ?
I am not talking about Hamilton. Not everything here is only about Hamilton. The chance was really low on catching Ham, he had 15-20sec from safety car deployed to the SC2 line according to live timing.
There was no safety car visible, so nothing to read.

I was talking about Bottas. He came out right after the safety car. He was ~35sec after the SC deployed at the pit exit, so it took them 30sec to send out the safety car. The safety car was not "set up" it came right out of the pits, it did nearly not even reach the SC2 line before Bot was behind.

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am
As for the yellow flag comment, I was saying once Stroll went off and yellow flags went out (which is almost always instantly as a car goes off) it took 13 seconds for race control to announce the safety car. It was then 1 second after that , that Lewis crossed the start line to complete his lap.
Yes, nothing wrong with this. But coming back to the live timing: in fi.tfeed.net it the times look a bit different. Lewis has just passed the pit entry and had to slow down substantially in S1. Looking at the time difference with Bot who pitted it was at least 10sec on the main straight as Bot lost only 15sec.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:25 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:58 am

From "safety car deployed" for the track to "safety car deployed" to the safety car it was at least 30sec. In the past it was the same command and the marshalls and safety car got it at the same time...today they hold it back and send the car much later than the marshalling signals. I do not know what you mean with the yellow flag.
For a start, when the safety car was deployed by race control, Lewis Hamilton was 1 second away from the start line doing 170mph+, so there was no chance of Lewis ever being behind the safety car. Then you say it was at least 30 seconds (suggesting more than 30 seconds) , but 30 seconds after the Safety Car was deployed on the live timing the safety car was sat up at the entry of turn 1 waiting to pick up the leader. You are saying the safety car waiting 30 seconds in the pitlane before it went out ?
I am not talking about Hamilton. Not everything here is only about Hamilton. The chance was really low on catching Ham, he had 15-20sec from safety car deployed to the SC2 line according to live timing.
There was no safety car visible, so nothing to read.

I was talking about Bottas. He came out right after the safety car. He was ~35sec after the SC deployed at the pit exit, so it took them 30sec to send out the safety car. The safety car was not "set up" it came right out of the pits, it did nearly not even reach the SC2 line before Bot was behind.

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am
As for the yellow flag comment, I was saying once Stroll went off and yellow flags went out (which is almost always instantly as a car goes off) it took 13 seconds for race control to announce the safety car. It was then 1 second after that , that Lewis crossed the start line to complete his lap.
Yes, nothing wrong with this. But coming back to the live timing: in fi.tfeed.net it the times look a bit different. Lewis has just passed the pit entry and had to slow down substantially in S1. Looking at the time difference with Bot who pitted it was at least 10sec on the main straight as Bot lost only 15sec.
So what were you complaining about earlier? I got the impression that you were suggesting Mercedes were helped by the Safety Car being sent out late.

I obviously misread you, sorry.
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:33 pm
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:25 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am


For a start, when the safety car was deployed by race control, Lewis Hamilton was 1 second away from the start line doing 170mph+, so there was no chance of Lewis ever being behind the safety car. Then you say it was at least 30 seconds (suggesting more than 30 seconds) , but 30 seconds after the Safety Car was deployed on the live timing the safety car was sat up at the entry of turn 1 waiting to pick up the leader. You are saying the safety car waiting 30 seconds in the pitlane before it went out ?
I am not talking about Hamilton. Not everything here is only about Hamilton. The chance was really low on catching Ham, he had 15-20sec from safety car deployed to the SC2 line according to live timing.
There was no safety car visible, so nothing to read.

I was talking about Bottas. He came out right after the safety car. He was ~35sec after the SC deployed at the pit exit, so it took them 30sec to send out the safety car. The safety car was not "set up" it came right out of the pits, it did nearly not even reach the SC2 line before Bot was behind.

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:32 am
As for the yellow flag comment, I was saying once Stroll went off and yellow flags went out (which is almost always instantly as a car goes off) it took 13 seconds for race control to announce the safety car. It was then 1 second after that , that Lewis crossed the start line to complete his lap.
Yes, nothing wrong with this. But coming back to the live timing: in fi.tfeed.net it the times look a bit different. Lewis has just passed the pit entry and had to slow down substantially in S1. Looking at the time difference with Bot who pitted it was at least 10sec on the main straight as Bot lost only 15sec.
So what were you complaining about earlier? I got the impression that you were suggesting Mercedes were helped by the Safety Car being sent out late.

I obviously misread you, sorry.
I was not complaining, I was just reacting on the nonsense, that the FIA is trying to screw the lead car with Safety Cars.
In the past the reaction time till SC2 line was at 10sec maximum, maybe even enough to catch Ham in Mugello, at least it would have been close. They have still the procedure with "safety car stand by" command...so now they let the car stand and wait for nearly 30sec on purpose so that the lead car either has enough time to enter the pits or definitely is past the SC2 line.
If they would like to screw the lead car, they would send out the SC like in the past.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am
Man...it is always the same with you...you do not know nothing about F1.

The safety car is standing close to the pit exit with a running engine. With each accident it gets a "safety car stand-by" message, which means lights on, 1st gear in. With the "safety car deployed" message it started in the past full speed to the safety car line 2. . This means it goes to this line in 5-10sec easily. In the past they send out the safety car immediately, remember the incident when Ham could overtake before the SC2 line and Alonso did not. Both were in the last corner when it was deployed
Oh, i am sorry, i didnt know you were the only one here knows about F1!
Could you please post the source of the information where by the SC is put in first gear! :roll:
Please show us the rule stating this! otherwise you are just twisting the truth to suit your version

Today they hold it back on purpose. Ham was 12 sec away from the pit exit, did a full pitstop with nearly 30sec and still was not caught by the SC in Monza. In Mugello Bot was 5 sec behind Ham, who was about 5sec away from pit entry. Plus the pitstop he was coming out seconds behind the SC...
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:58 am
From "safety car deployed" for the track to "safety car deployed" to the safety car it was at least 30sec. In the past it was the same command and the marshalls and safety car got it at the same time...today they hold it back and send the car much later than the marshalling signals. I do not know what you mean with the yellow flag.
basti313 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:14 pm

I was not complaining, I was just reacting on the nonsense, that the FIA is trying to screw the lead car with Safety Cars.
In the past the reaction time till SC2 line was at 10sec maximum, maybe even enough to catch Ham in Mugello, at least it would have been close. They have still the procedure with "safety car stand by" command...so now they let the car stand and wait for nearly 30sec on purpose so that the lead car either has enough time to enter the pits or definitely is past the SC2 line.
If they would like to screw the lead car, they would send out the SC like in the past.

Both your above claims are completely false, It can be evidenced from the videos below.



From the Live timings GPS tracking it is clear that they immediately send out the SC and in both races it didnot do any favour of the lead cars like you are stating.
At Mugello they put out a double yellow and then decided on SC within seconds when the videos showed it was a big impact. And like you said in the above quotes Lewis was not at all 12 sec behind he was AT the start finish straight when the SC came and that hampered him. The SC came out immediately and caught Bottas, but let him go by 3rd corner. (please see the video)


In Monza they had yellow flag for entire lap to see if they could move it, but idiotically decided to put SC and close the pit and Immediately move the Hass to pitlane :roll: (please see the video)


And what favor did that do to the leaders like you claim in the below mentioned quote??
basti313 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:06 pm
For me it is anyways the other way round: If FIA would like to screw the Mercs, they would send the Safety Car quick out of the pits. In all recent races they waited half a lap. Like this no one was caught behind the SC.
Example this week...when Ham crossed the pits he was given a free stop, they could have changed the whole car in this time as the SC was send out after Ham and before Bot...