2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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jz11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:53 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:58 am
jz11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:53 am
and I only saw him stopping once, I don't even know where the second place he stopped was, but I'm guessing it was something similar, else they wouldn't apply the second penalty
The Stewards indicate where he carried out the second start in their notification of the incident. It might be worth reading those documents before arguing about them for multiple pages?
my mistake wording it like that, I see people here are extremely keen on how exactly something is written and just plain ignore the thought behind it - which, if you did follow my posts about this, would indicate I was talking about his second stop (I think it was second, because there is nothing but track after the one I did see) at the end of pit exit, and by "second place he stopped" was supposed to be written by me "other place he stopped", which technically would be the first one, and I just looked up the wording of the documents you referred to, and they both say the same thing without being very specific where the first and the second one took place

so, please, tell me, where did he do the first one? where can I SEE it, not read about it

to be absolutely clear, this is the place I was talking about that I did see, but haven't seen the other one
https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2020/ ... start.html
First he stopped where the other drivers stop. Which is immediately after the pit exit. This is normal he wasn't penalized for this.

He stopped a second time further away from the pit exit, in that space on the right after the long curve. By the letter of the Law he was not wrong. But the Stewards penalized him for not practice starting in the designated place, which they failed to accurately define.

The second penalty in my interpretation, was applied because Hamilton failed to maintain a constant speed through the pit exit. Even this one is a little wishy washy because it is saying that after the first attempted practice start which he abandoned, he should have continued without stopping again through the "Pit exit." However as defined by the Race notes map..the areas in question are not a part of the pit exit.

So all in all it is all moot. The Stewards failed to comprehensively define where practice starts are allowed and not allowed.
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dans79
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:58 pm
The Stewards failed to comprehensively define where practice starts are allowed and not allowed.
To be clear, it's the race directors fault.
173 101 99 7

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Right! The director. Massi.

I am gonna be calling him "Messy" from now on. Not to be confused with the football great, but more related to the stuff a five year old does on walls with crayons.
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siskue2005
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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jz11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:57 pm
also, the lowest form of discussion is attacking the other side personally ignoring the point, which is very much what you are doing here, think about it before you tell someone to go away because they have no credibility
Really? werent you doing the same to me few pages ago? :roll: :roll:
See your quote below which i had reported and your posts were deleted afterwards
jz11 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm
and I previously said why the rule may have been implemented, because if someone isn't as careful as Hamilton maybe was, he may create unwanted situation of others having to cross the white line and join track in unsafe manner, that didn't happen, but the rule was made specifically for this reason, and if you pretend not to understand it and blame this on stewards, you're just temporarily mentally impaired (till you begin to worship some other driver)
And now you hold the moral high ground?? :? :roll:

jz11
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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did anyone take that personally? I'll apologize if they admit they did

notsofast
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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I think your point is that Hamilton should not have stopped there for his practice start, because that is an unsafe area. Many of us would agree with you on that point. However, sport is done according to rules, and according to the rules (which were poorly written), Hamilton was permitted to do what he did.

jz11
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:58 pm


First he stopped where the other drivers stop. Which is immediately after the pit exit. This is normal he wasn't penalized for this.

He stopped a second time further away from the pit exit, in that space on the right after the long curve. By the letter of the Law he was not wrong. But the Stewards penalized him for not practice starting in the designated place, which they failed to accurately define.

The second penalty in my interpretation, was applied because Hamilton failed to maintain a constant speed through the pit exit. Even this one is a little wishy washy because it is saying that after the first attempted practice start which he abandoned, he should have continued without stopping again through the "Pit exit." However as defined by the Race notes map..the areas in question are not a part of the pit exit.

So all in all it is all moot. The Stewards failed to comprehensively define where practice starts are allowed and not allowed.
this is the reason why I was asking if anyone seen a video of him showing both infractions, because I don't think they would give out 2 penalties for 1 additional practice start at the end of the pit exit even if it supposedly broke 2 separate rules, that would be quite odd

still not arguing or debating about it, just looking to find out what the other 5sec was for exactly

notsofast
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Diesel wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:25 pm
EDIT: All original notes can be found here: https://www.fia.com/documents/season/season-2020-1059
Check the above link. You will see that Hamilton performed two practice starts in the same location, 3 minutes apart. He received the same penalty for each one.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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jz11 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:44 pm
did anyone take that personally? I'll apologize if they admit they did
Really, you directly quoted me and personally attacked me and now trying to sell it as it was not personal attack? :roll:
I was pointing out the hypocrasy in your posts and you act as if we have memory of a troll? :roll:
Here is your entire quote
And you also got a warning from the mods for that
jz11 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:20 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:13 pm


I think what he’s saying is that it’s totally irrelevant where anyone else did their starts if the notes don’t specifically forbid Hamilton doing his where he did.
Thank you :)
not is very much NOT irrelevant when 19 others do their practice starts, do not get penalties, your guy does it somewhere where his race engineer thought it was ok, got 2! penalties, yet you blame stewards and the rule wording?

I can't find right now where it defines what the fast lane is technically, I'd think it is the lane from pit entry to the pit exit, defined by the white lines, and 19.2 specifically tells not to stop there for any reason, and I think at least one of those Hamiltons stops/starts was here (red dot):
https://imgur.com/00f704fe-5eb9-4be9-9833-0d26d8b432b9

and I previously said why the rule may have been implemented, because if someone isn't as careful as Hamilton maybe was, he may create unwanted situation of others having to cross the white line and join track in unsafe manner, that didn't happen, but the rule was made specifically for this reason, and if you pretend not to understand it and blame this on stewards, you're just temporarily mentally impaired (till you begin to worship some other driver)

and I'll say it again - it is race engineers job to know these things by heart ON THE SPOT, he was to be aware of all these details, so the driver can focus just on driving the car, right now, because of the sloppy job they did with the pit lane closure and this - he puts unnecessary stress on Hamilton to also start to think about these things

they screwed up, again, because no one else got this penalty! it should be very clear, yet somehow these points completely pass over your heads...

jz11
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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so you did take that personally and I very much apologize, it was a general stab at Hamilton fanboy base who will defend anything he does regardless and where "you" wasn't You personally

edit: and I also don't see any warning I've supposedly received? nothing under the bell icon, no personal messages also, nothing on my profile as far as I can see
edit: just rechecked the post you quoted, and I for sure did not erase the bold-underlined portion of it, and wasn't aware that anyone did
Last edited by jz11 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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hollus
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Stop the personal stuff now, guys. I am sure you did not come to F1T to pick up fights.
There is also no need to try to convince the other half of the planet that your point of view is the only right one, or to beat anyone up until they see the truth.
Disagreements are sometimes the salt of life, it is a pity to kill them ;-)
¡Puxa Esportin!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Image

:lol: :wink: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

f1jcw
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Has this being raised already?

It seems Charles in SPA also did a practice start in a illegal section/.

Not a word,

https://www.motorlat.com/notas/f1/17311 ... o-oblivion

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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Ooh. Juicy!

Messy Massi.
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siskue2005
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Re: 2020 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, September 25 - 27

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f1jcw wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:53 pm
Has this being raised already?

It seems Charles in SPA also did a practice start in a illegal section/.

Not a word,

https://www.motorlat.com/notas/f1/17311 ... o-oblivion
Well ofcourse, you have to look at the color of the car :mrgreen:

What intrigues me is they called them after the race to hear from them and then issue "No Further Action"

Why wasnt that option available for Lewis? why straight to 2 x 5 sec penalty?