2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 pm

My question is, why wasn't the crane that Lando parked next to used to hoist the car off the track under a VSC? They didn't even need to bring the crane on track, could have just extended it over the barrier.
Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
Last edited by Sieper on Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Powered pullback cables and skids for under the rear tires at these stations?
Even easier if there is a gap positioned for a freewheeling car to drive through
That would be perfect, but the stricken car would have to be able still to do a 180 degrees turn at most of these stations. In 90 degree corners that is easier to achieve.
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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 pm

My question is, why wasn't the crane that Lando parked next to used to hoist the car off the track under a VSC? They didn't even need to bring the crane on track, could have just extended it over the barrier.
Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
They had a VSC for the Williams didn't they? Or am I crazy 😂?!
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i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 pm

My question is, why wasn't the crane that Lando parked next to used to hoist the car off the track under a VSC? They didn't even need to bring the crane on track, could have just extended it over the barrier.
Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
I said they could have extended it over the barrier i.e. the crane didn't need to come on track. I also said with a VSC, not a yellow. The VSC enforces the delta, Bianchi was speeding under double waved yellows, it wouldn't have happened under a VSC. The introduced the VSC for this very reason, but they choose not to use it.
Last edited by i70q7m7ghw on Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jz11
jz11
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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they did use that crane, but the marshal still has to come out near the car to attach the straps - I suspect that is the reason for bringing out the safety car, a tractor alone is a danger to an F1 car going off and sliding into it, and F1 car sliding off the track is a danger to a marshal taking care of the straps

and the overly long time it took them to do it was maybe due to possible fire, bits of bodywork had fire damage on them on the right hand side, so maybe there was also electrical danger there also

anyway, VSC would have probably sufficed there, I'm very much not a fan of it due to opinion that race restarts after full safety car are a part of the sport, and VSC is taking away another skill that driver has to have to be successful, sometimes it may benefit someone over someone else, but that is also part of a technical sport, and having so many events on the calendar kind of evens those odds out, though I'd like to see a rule that, when it comes to driver championship standings, they'd take lets say best 18 out of 20 results to count for championship - to take the randomness out even more

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Racer X wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:40 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm

Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
They had a VSC for the Williams didn't they? Or am I crazy 😂?!
No, you are not crazy, but I specifically said, replied to doing it under yellow alone. that is not done anymore, a VSC would have been possible imho.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:44 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm

Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
I said they could have extended it over the barrier i.e. the crane didn't need to come on track. I also said with a VSC, not a yellow. The VSC enforces the delta, Bianchi was speeding under double waved yellows, it wouldn't have happened under a VSC. The introduced the VSC for this very reason, but they choose not to use it.
I was replying to just a fan who specifically stated yellow was an option. I replied to that.
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jz11
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 pm

My question is, why wasn't the crane that Lando parked next to used to hoist the car off the track under a VSC? They didn't even need to bring the crane on track, could have just extended it over the barrier.
Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
2:08 in the video

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Maybe they could even make an extendable wall at the exit places. Stop your car at the orange marked place and then a crash barrier wall comes out in front of it. It would work on some places.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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jz11 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:44 pm
they did use that crane, but the marshal still has to come out near the car to attach the straps - I suspect that is the reason for bringing out the safety car, a tractor alone is a danger to an F1 car going off and sliding into it, and F1 car sliding off the track is a danger to a marshal taking care of the straps
Exactly as they did for the Williams, you mean? Marshals on track to fit lifting strap.

Williams recovered under VSC when no "show" benefit available. Full SC for the McLaren when it could result in "show" for last 10 laps.

It's transparently obvious that they're doing it.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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jz11 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:48 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm

Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
2:08 in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRodnWyKp0
Exactly! And that was ignored also as it had to go wrong terribly before the rules were improved. That is why we are now sometimes facing almost “too strict” measures (especially as the SC is too slow for the current monster machines). Restarting on these too cold tires will end in a heavy crash at some point. I guarantee it.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:52 pm
jz11 wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:44 pm
they did use that crane, but the marshal still has to come out near the car to attach the straps - I suspect that is the reason for bringing out the safety car, a tractor alone is a danger to an F1 car going off and sliding into it, and F1 car sliding off the track is a danger to a marshal taking care of the straps
Exactly as they did for the Williams, you mean? Marshals on track to fit lifting strap.

Williams recovered under VSC when no "show" benefit available. Full SC for the McLaren when it could result in "show" for last 10 laps.

It's transparently obvious that they're doing it.
I agree it smells suspicious. All the more reason to think about improving car recovery. I added 2 possible options, others also. This needs to be implemented. SC is very impactfull and introduces danger at restart. Safety should be leading.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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So, enough of the trivia, now the serious decisions.

What tattoo is Cyril going to have?

I vote a honeybadger drinking out of a shoe.
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Voltaire, or several other claimants.

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Michael Masi seems to be the current poster boy of the Peter principle.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:38 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:36 pm
Diesel wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 pm

My question is, why wasn't the crane that Lando parked next to used to hoist the car off the track under a VSC? They didn't even need to bring the crane on track, could have just extended it over the barrier.
Oh that's easy. It's all about "the show". Throwing a safety car for that was all about manufacturing a sprint to the end.

Could have been done with a VSC. Could have been done with yellows to be honest.
No, not with yellow. They stopped that after Bianchi. Even on this very track a car once skidded backwards (but stopped just in time) into a machine towing a car from track.
If it is a boom crane like what they use in Monaco it doesnt even need to come on the track, thuse there would be no threat of a car crashing into it. So something FIA needs to look into.
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