2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Max himself was quite confident he would have gotten Bottas, he usually is not overestimating what he thinks is possible. Lewis was way too fast for Bottas. Is it known yet what the problem was that caused him to retire by the way?
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Phil
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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I'm just going to put the elephant no one has been talking about out there;

Why was there a safety car towards the end? Why was it needed? Why not a VSC?

If it was indeed in an attempt to "spice up the show" - IMO, it was contra productive. At that point in the race, Lewis was complaining about graining on his tires, but with Verstappen some 10s behind, he couldn't pit - or if he did, he would have to pass Verstappen on track. By bringing out a safety car, they neutralized the tire as both Hamilton and Verstappen got a pitstop for free. If Massi had triggered a VSC insead, one wonders if Hamilton had pitted, if Verstappen had followed, or if Hamilton had not and Verstappen would have gotten that pitstop at a lower cost.

The other question in regards to the race I wonder about, is what if Bottas had not had his technical issue. He pitted earlier as a result of his flat spotted tire, which ultimately put him onto another strategy (2 stop). Could this have been the winning strategy and have an advantage over Hamilton not being able to pit because of Verstappen just behind him?
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:23 pm
If that's not dominance then what is? It's almost harder to not win in the W11 than the other way around.
Maybe once Hamilton has wrapped up the championship we start a petition to let Hulkenburg get a win.

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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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graham.reeds wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:46 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:23 pm
If that's not dominance then what is? It's almost harder to not win in the W11 than the other way around.
Maybe once Hamilton has wrapped up the championship we start a petition to let Hulkenburg get a win.
I like Hulk as much as the next guy but i hate when some one gets on the podium who didnt earn it and i like keep in mind if LUCK put them there.

Like as much as i dont like Maldonado he had a one time moment of brilliance he earned a podium. Like Ricciardo this weekend was only there because Norris lost his engine and so did Bottas. even if he beat Perez i still think Bottas and Norris were fast so luck is on thing --- happens good for Ricciardo but this obsession people have with Hulk getting a podium i hope it happens but it needs to be earned.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Phil wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm
I'm just going to put the elephant no one has been talking about out there;

Why was there a safety car towards the end? Why was it needed? Why not a VSC?

If it was indeed in an attempt to "spice up the show" - IMO, it was contra productive. At that point in the race, Lewis was complaining about graining on his tires, but with Verstappen some 10s behind, he couldn't pit - or if he did, he would have to pass Verstappen on track. By bringing out a safety car, they neutralized the tire as both Hamilton and Verstappen got a pitstop for free. If Massi had triggered a VSC insead, one wonders if Hamilton had pitted, if Verstappen had followed, or if Hamilton had not and Verstappen would have gotten that pitstop at a lower cost.

The other question in regards to the race I wonder about, is what if Bottas had not had his technical issue. He pitted earlier as a result of his flat spotted tire, which ultimately put him onto another strategy (2 stop). Could this have been the winning strategy and have an advantage over Hamilton not being able to pit because of Verstappen just behind him?
I think 100% it was an attempt to spice up the show. Norris' car was so far away from the track it was almost halfway to Cologne. it didn't need full safety car in the slightest seen as it wasn't raining, and the crane was behind the barrier the whole time. VSC would have done perfectly well there.
Also it totally ruined the end of the race for how many laps they were all stuck behind it while they messed about bunching everyone up and getting the lapped cars out of the way.

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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If think it was an attempt to recover a stranded car.
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:47 pm
If think it was an attempt to recover a stranded car.
It was transparently an attempt to pull the field together in order to have a chance of a battle or two. No doubt Masi hoped Max could pressure Lewis, along with Dan and others having a fight.

VSC would have covered it perfectly - it was the sort of situation that VSC was brought in for.

People moaned that DRS was artificial. Masi's SC implementation is just the most artificial ridiculous silliness ever foisted on F1.
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Lando was parked on the outside of a bend, yes it didn't take long but the safety of the Marshalls has to come first so a full safety car.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Plus his car was obviously scorching, exhaust was burning through the body work, they were afraid for high voltage problems Likely.

There is ZERO chance of a Merc getting taken at the restart this year (or it must be in the first meters if they make a mistake) they make a gap off 4 seconds in 2 laps with their front tires remaining on temp. Happened every SC this year. Masi knows this just as well. Maybe then further back in the field but I think it likely simply the car removal. I don’t like it either, for me a VSC would suffice but this is just how it goes now. In this very thread I and others have thought up some ideas to SPeed up car removal. Add your own, you bunch are creative thinkers.
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Phil wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm
The other question in regards to the race I wonder about, is what if Bottas had not had his technical issue. He pitted earlier as a result of his flat spotted tire, which ultimately put him onto another strategy (2 stop). Could this have been the winning strategy and have an advantage over Hamilton not being able to pit because of Verstappen just behind him?
Unlikely because Hamilton & Max got the benfit of the first free stop, which basically wrecked the undercut for Bottas, and he would have lost out again later during the second SC/VSC as the front runners got another "free stop". It just wasn't Bottas's day.

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Juzh
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Phil wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:14 pm
I'm just going to put the elephant no one has been talking about out there;

Why was there a safety car towards the end? Why was it needed? Why not a VSC?

If it was indeed in an attempt to "spice up the show" - IMO, it was contra productive. At that point in the race, Lewis was complaining about graining on his tires, but with Verstappen some 10s behind, he couldn't pit - or if he did, he would have to pass Verstappen on track. By bringing out a safety car, they neutralized the tire as both Hamilton and Verstappen got a pitstop for free. If Massi had triggered a VSC insead, one wonders if Hamilton had pitted, if Verstappen had followed, or if Hamilton had not and Verstappen would have gotten that pitstop at a lower cost.
All the while Hamilton "complained" about graining he was still pulling away from Verstappen. If only VSC was triggered then Hamilton can pit and come out very close behind verstappen. Verstappen on old rubber would then be eaten in a few laps and easily overtaken. Then he would probably also pit since he had 1 minute over ricciardo.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Vertsappen tyres were actually in more trouble. Hamilton makes a habbit of bluffing his tyres are dead. Even He and Bonno very well can see the data says otherwise.

Max was being dropped and dropped hard. Three tenths a lap and growing. Likely would have ended the race over 15 seconds behind.
.. ... ... ... ...

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Scorpaguy
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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...my gut reaction is to view all in-race communications from Ham as suspicious. Ham races with with his head more than his right foot.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:57 pm
...my gut reaction is to view all in-race communications from Ham as suspicious. Ham races with with his head more than his right foot.
I think that would apply to all the drivers TBH, to some extent.
It's also worth remembering all the drivers are talking all the time to their engineers. The broadcasters only pick the juicy ones and build narratives and drama in a race from them, which is why you only ever get the messages from Hamilton and Verstappen 'moaning' about something while leading- usually tyres, safety car speed or something technical which might just make you think there could be something exciting happening (there very rarely is) or any fallout from a collision.

It's ALL fluff and needs to be taken with a grain of salt really, unless it's engine problems like with Norris or Bottas at the weekend.

It give the impression Hamilton and Verstappen particularly are screaming maniacs in their cars when actually not really. You only have to listen to the last laps of Silverstone 1 when Hamilton's tyre blows to see actually how calm and cool under pressure they really are.

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Re: 2020 Eifel Grand Prix - Nürburgring, October 9-11

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:19 pm
Plus his car was obviously scorching, exhaust was burning through the body work, they were afraid for high voltage problems Likely.

There is ZERO chance of a Merc getting taken at the restart this year (or it must be in the first meters if they make a mistake) they make a gap off 4 seconds in 2 laps with their front tires remaining on temp. Happened every SC this year. Masi knows this just as well. Maybe then further back in the field but I think it likely simply the car removal. I don’t like it either, for me a VSC would suffice but this is just how it goes now. In this very thread I and others have thought up some ideas to SPeed up car removal. Add your own, you bunch are creative thinkers.

Masi knows only the orders he got from F1 owners to spice things up anytime possible. Formula is turning into an entertainment and lost a lot this year from its sport angle.