2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:06 am
Hamilton again... pretty much made his own luck with his pace.
Bottas was unlucky here. only thing he can be blamed for is driving on the debris.
Max i guess did the best he could. The failure just gave Bottas more breathing space for the P2 in the championship.
Again this race is showing the calibre of drive racing point are firing. Makes no sense.
Riciardo seems to be operating on a very high level with that Renault. Shame he doesnt get a top car to drive.
Albon, sad to say it, doesnt deserve to be in F1. Even Kyvaat has his good days.
They should put perez or kyvaat in that redbull. As random as kyvaats performances are he will do better than albon. He is mentally tougher and i dont think he takes redbull bad treatment personally.
The fight for 3rd in the constructors is now my focus. Hamilton and mercedes have already won.
“Max I guess did the best he could” that is quite a big compliment!
Bad treatment by RedBULL yet it is you who says he doesn’t deserve to be in F1. May I ask, what did you say last year of Gasly? I would have liked they kept him on last year but similar claims were being made as you are now doing about Albon by many. Lashing out it seems to me.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Anyone else notice Max was way more aggressive on the entry to the last chicane (T14)? He was consistently using way more kerb than anyone else I saw. Could have abused the right rear which contributed to failure.

Note: Not saying the failure is justified.

bosyber
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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To get back to the race here, I didn't see, but certainly might have missed it: did anyone post pics of where that front wing endplate of Vettel was stuck on Bottas' car? I think with the size it was, one cannot fault him for drying over it, if he encountered it just as he rounded the corner, he didn't have the choice to avoid it, and as he said, getting a damaged tyre would definitely have ended his race, so going straight and hoping for the best/that aero would guide it over him, was probably his best bet.

So anyway, the-race had this pic:
Image
One might say that clearly the air is being guided well on that car, to Bottas detriment in this case, as it guided that sailing bit of endplate nicely behind the barge-boards, which is probably where it got stuck from being to big to be guided around the sidepods! I can easily believe that cost him almost a second a lap.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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That chunk of Ferrari would have messed up the air flow under the floor on that side. That would have not only given a general drop in downforce but also an unpredictable car - just as Bottas said afterwards, the car would be ok in some places, not in others.

I wonder if Hamilton was told about it too. If so, that might be why he just sat back, staying in touch with the two in front and kept his tyres in good condition - although he'd have probably decided to do that anyway as it's now a proven method of rolling the dice in his favour. Max would have known because the team would have heard Bottas's radio calls telling him about it.

It was a shame for Bottas because he'd have most likely won the race without that piece of debris. He'd have pulled away from Max rather than just being tracked by him.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:46 am
That chunk of Ferrari would have messed up the air flow under the floor on that side. That would have not only given a general drop in downforce but also an unpredictable car - just as Bottas said afterwards, the car would be ok in some places, not in others.

I wonder if Hamilton was told about it too. If so, that might be why he just sat back, staying in touch with the two in front and kept his tyres in good condition - although he'd have probably decided to do that anyway as it's now a proven method of rolling the dice in his favour. Max would have known because the team would have heard Bottas's radio calls telling him about it.

It was a shame for Bottas because he'd have most likely won the race without that piece of debris. He'd have pulled away from Max rather than just being tracked by him.
You need not wonder as that certainly was the case. They all listen to eachothers radio. Redbull knew it too. That is why they undercut him, to force him into a very long stint on tires that would negate part of the straight line advantage (as you come out of corners slower). It worked and they got P2. Hamilton was out of reach especially as max was stuck behind the aero damaged Bottas in stint 1, nothing to be done about that. They aimed for P2 which was the realistic option imho.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Hamilton didnt have to know Bottas' pace when you look at it becuase in the position that Hamilton was in there was basically no other choice than to go long and wait for a safety car or hope that Bottas and Max are stymied by traffic.
.. ... ... ... ...

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Indeed, he didn’t even need to know. But they all knew, Horner said so after the race in the interview and it was obvious Bottas who had been quick all weekend was “struggling” (a Fair bit slower).
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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bosyber wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:38 am
To get back to the race here, I didn't see, but certainly might have missed it: did anyone post pics of where that front wing endplate of Vettel was stuck on Bottas' car? I think with the size it was, one cannot fault him for drying over it, if he encountered it just as he rounded the corner, he didn't have the choice to avoid it, and as he said, getting a damaged tyre would definitely have ended his race, so going straight and hoping for the best/that aero would guide it over him, was probably his best bet.

So anyway, the-race had this pic:
https://motorsport-magazine.s3.eu-west- ... 24x576.jpg
One might say that clearly the air is being guided well on that car, to Bottas detriment in this case, as it guided that sailing bit of endplate nicely behind the barge-boards, which is probably where it got stuck from being to big to be guided around the sidepods! I can easily believe that cost him almost a second a lap.
I'm pretty sure the big piece was stuck under ther car on the left side between the plank and the tire. You can see it under the car coming out of tosa on lap 2.

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Despite the difficulty in overtaking on this track, I very much enjoyed this race. Especially the part midrace when Hamilton was going long and putting in incredible laptimes to extend the gap to 27s+ were very exciting. Unfortunately, the virtual safety car was a bit anti climax - it certainly would have been much thrilling to see it work out without and how close the gap would have been.

I'm also a bit skeptical over how much that debris in Bottas car actually caused him to lose time. For sure it didn't make the car easier to drive, but when he was nearing his pit-stop window, I thought he was quite competitive (relative to Max) in increasing the gap (2.5s) just before Max pitted. At that point, Hamilton was 4.4s behind Bottas and really started to push (just as Bottas was), yet the gap until Bottas pitted only came down by a tenth within that lap. Given both were pushing reasonably hard (Bottas because he had to to avoid the undercut by Max, and Hamilton because he was battling both and suddenly had clean air), I'm not convinced Bottas was losing significant time from the stuck debris.

Maybe this wasn't an issue on the medium tire and on a more fueled car? Unless they somehow moved it during his pitstop, but having just watched it, I can't see them doing that and they only really had 2s to spot it and do something about it?

Anyway - not going to say much about Russel. Mistakes happen, just a pity for him and the team given this was this years chance to make points. Gutted for him.

Albon... well, gutted for him, but I think this has sealed his fate, really. Can't see him retained next year, sadly. I really don't think he'd be doing worse than Gasly would in his position, but Gasly has the drive next year at AT and I think they're also paving the way for another young driver alongside him.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Moore77
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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The current situation at Mercedes is that, Hamilton can park his car in Race, go to loo, come back, drive and still win. Bottas would invariably make a mistake or simply run out of pace and can't compete for a win. :lol:

CONGRATULATIONS to Mercedes on 7th Championship! What a marvel of a team!!!
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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bosyber wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:38 am
To get back to the race here, I didn't see, but certainly might have missed it: did anyone post pics of where that front wing endplate of Vettel was stuck on Bottas' car? I think with the size it was, one cannot fault him for drying over it, if he encountered it just as he rounded the corner, he didn't have the choice to avoid it, and as he said, getting a damaged tyre would definitely have ended his race, so going straight and hoping for the best/that aero would guide it over him, was probably his best bet.

So anyway, the-race had this pic:
https://motorsport-magazine.s3.eu-west- ... 24x576.jpg
One might say that clearly the air is being guided well on that car, to Bottas detriment in this case, as it guided that sailing bit of endplate nicely behind the barge-boards, which is probably where it got stuck from being to big to be guided around the sidepods! I can easily believe that cost him almost a second a lap.
No, 5 seconds.

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langedweil
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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That was weird indeed ..
Just before it goes kaboom, it's visible the inside gives in

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 0rxCG.html
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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@phil, Russell was on 40 laps old whites and desperate to keep his P10, he wanted to keep as much heat in his tires as possible.

Actually, this is something I find very recognizable also in my own sporting, you worry so much about something that it can stop you from proper decision making. Here f.el Russell still had a full lap of unlapping to warm up his tires, no need for the risk. But he worried so much he took more risk than needed. At the start, Verstappen already said saturday he worried about the right hand side of the grid being in a slightly better spot (with that slight twist to the right on the straight) so he put the car a little angled and what must have been on the extremest edge of it. Couldn’t have been more than a few mm left for collecting a false start. Risk/reward based on your own fears skewed. Hamilton in Russia. He was so fearfull of the long run (rightly so, not an attack) to turn 1 that he wanted to practice the start on perfectly similar asphalt twice. Which got him the penalty, not reopening that discussion but it is for me a similar example of risk VS reward “stuck in own mind) skewed thinking.

My point is, they all do sometimes get caught up in that. It was not a silly error but a driver under (also a bit self induced) pressure trying to keep his spot and seeing (rightfully) threats to that, but taking too much risk in the process.
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Racer X
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:11 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:07 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:05 am


That makes the use of it even more disgusting. I hope the people that use the word mongol in that way learn better. The same for the word retard. My cousin is disabled so I only use the word retard in the physics sense. She feels hurt when that word is used. Good thing she doesn't watch Formula 1. Imagine what Mongolians who were watching though of it!
LOL, even more disgusting.
You are aware that words like moron/idiot/imbecile originate from that same psychiatric context, right?
But good on ya, you fearsome keyboard warrior!

(truly hope that didn't offend you)
I understand why Verstappen used that phrase. As the Dutch people know here and to all the others on this forum, the Dutch swear in deceases and we take no quarter. If you bump your toe it’s because or that Cancer table, your neighbours that is using his power tools on Sunday morning is a Tuberculosis sufferer and your mother in law can get aids. We combine sicknesses and mental disabilities to give it more body. This is one of the strangest habits of the Dutch language.

But, with that in mind, I can understand his outburst. What I don’t understand that he didn’t take in the criticism afterwards and took it on the chin. This was a great opportunity to lern and develop. Missed opportunity.
Thats cool but you live in the European Union so when you leave you must accept the possibility of some one being offended.
Just say sorry its that simple. Not only did Max not apologize but he said he wasn't sorry and had nothing to apologize about. lol Only to go back out and be sorry for people's reaction to his comments. Which is still technically not an apology.


Thats like saying "With all due respect f*ck you" and then when people get mad saying: "I said with all due respect"...

Also this happened in Europe but its actually a Global sport....
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Jolle
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Racer X wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:31 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:11 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:07 am

LOL, even more disgusting.
You are aware that words like moron/idiot/imbecile originate from that same psychiatric context, right?
But good on ya, you fearsome keyboard warrior!

(truly hope that didn't offend you)
I understand why Verstappen used that phrase. As the Dutch people know here and to all the others on this forum, the Dutch swear in deceases and we take no quarter. If you bump your toe it’s because or that Cancer table, your neighbours that is using his power tools on Sunday morning is a Tuberculosis sufferer and your mother in law can get aids. We combine sicknesses and mental disabilities to give it more body. This is one of the strangest habits of the Dutch language.

But, with that in mind, I can understand his outburst. What I don’t understand that he didn’t take in the criticism afterwards and took it on the chin. This was a great opportunity to lern and develop. Missed opportunity.
Thats cool but you live in the European Union so when you leave you must accept the possibility of some one being offended.
Just say sorry its that simple. Not only did Max not apologize but he said he wasn't sorry and had nothing to apologize about. lol Only to go back out and be sorry for people's reaction to his comments. Which is still technically not an apology.


Thats like saying "With all due respect f*ck you" and then when people get mad saying: "I said with all due respect"...

Also this happened in Europe but its actually a Global sport....
That is what I was saying? Learn, develop, in other words, try to be a better person.