2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Great view of Verstappen's tyre blowing here:

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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A few mtr sooner and those track workers would have been grit blasted too
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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ringo
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:06 am
Hamilton again... pretty much made his own luck with his pace.
Bottas was unlucky here. only thing he can be blamed for is driving on the debris.
Max i guess did the best he could. The failure just gave Bottas more breathing space for the P2 in the championship.
Again this race is showing the calibre of drive racing point are firing. Makes no sense.
Riciardo seems to be operating on a very high level with that Renault. Shame he doesnt get a top car to drive.
Albon, sad to say it, doesnt deserve to be in F1. Even Kyvaat has his good days.
They should put perez or kyvaat in that redbull. As random as kyvaats performances are he will do better than albon. He is mentally tougher and i dont think he takes redbull bad treatment personally.
The fight for 3rd in the constructors is now my focus. Hamilton and mercedes have already won.
“Max I guess did the best he could” that is quite a big compliment!
Bad treatment by RedBULL yet it is you who says he doesn’t deserve to be in F1. May I ask, what did you say last year of Gasly? I would have liked they kept him on last year but similar claims were being made as you are now doing about Albon by many. Lashing out it seems to me.
Well it is Max's team and the environment is tilted in such a way that he is most comfortable there and the car is setup to his liking, and so are the engineers and details. I don't think the car is "built" around him as i don't beleive that cliche. I do believe he gets more support throughout a weekend to optimize his car as opposed to Albon.
Now i am not being harsh on Albon, but he is nowhere and has been nowhere compared to Max. I also base my judgement on him constantly fighting with lesser cars for points. His may not be setup to his liking, but it is still the second best car in the field when it comes to potential to be setup to win. Maybe he is not doing that. Maybe his engineers are not helping him to find a setup good for him, maybe he is not communicating what he needs to have faster pace in the race, maybe he is not getting enough coaching in terms of driving technique. We will never know.
What we do know is Gasly and Kyvaat are wrestling with Albon for crumbs points.
Yes redbull is not the best place for two young drivers. That's my conclusion. Had it been Albon as the only young driver or Gasly i think they would have been doing much better. Max may be another alonso, a toxic gas in the garage that stifles team mates.
Dont get me wrong, Albon and Gasly have some talent, but the personality is the difference. That develops at different rates for different drivers. Now Gasly is more confident and beleives in himself. Albon clearly doesn't based on how he drives the car. I think Albon needs to go to another team or drive in another series, similar to Grosjean (who was always labeled as needing a sports psychologist before he left the sport) then come back to f1.
For Sure!!

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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:46 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:06 am
Hamilton again... pretty much made his own luck with his pace.
Bottas was unlucky here. only thing he can be blamed for is driving on the debris.
Max i guess did the best he could. The failure just gave Bottas more breathing space for the P2 in the championship.
Again this race is showing the calibre of drive racing point are firing. Makes no sense.
Riciardo seems to be operating on a very high level with that Renault. Shame he doesnt get a top car to drive.
Albon, sad to say it, doesnt deserve to be in F1. Even Kyvaat has his good days.
They should put perez or kyvaat in that redbull. As random as kyvaats performances are he will do better than albon. He is mentally tougher and i dont think he takes redbull bad treatment personally.
The fight for 3rd in the constructors is now my focus. Hamilton and mercedes have already won.
“Max I guess did the best he could” that is quite a big compliment!
Bad treatment by RedBULL yet it is you who says he doesn’t deserve to be in F1. May I ask, what did you say last year of Gasly? I would have liked they kept him on last year but similar claims were being made as you are now doing about Albon by many. Lashing out it seems to me.
Well it is Max's team and the environment is tilted in such a way that he is most comfortable there and the car is setup to his liking, and so are the engineers and details. I don't think the car is "built" around him as i don't beleive that cliche. I do believe he gets more support throughout a weekend to optimize his car as opposed to Albon.
Now i am not being harsh on Albon, but he is nowhere and has been nowhere compared to Max. I also base my judgement on him constantly fighting with lesser cars for points. His may not be setup to his liking, but it is still the second best car in the field when it comes to potential to be setup to win. Maybe he is not doing that. Maybe his engineers are not helping him to find a setup good for him, maybe he is not communicating what he needs to have faster pace in the race, maybe he is not getting enough coaching in terms of driving technique. We will never know.
What we do know is Gasly and Kyvaat are wrestling with Albon for crumbs points.
Yes redbull is not the best place for two young drivers. That's my conclusion. Had it been Albon as the only young driver or Gasly i think they would have been doing much better. Max may be another alonso, a toxic gas in the garage that stifles team mates.
Dont get me wrong, Albon and Gasly have some talent, but the personality is the difference. That develops at different rates for different drivers. Now Gasly is more confident and beleives in himself. Albon clearly doesn't based on how he drives the car. I think Albon needs to go to another team or drive in another series, similar to Grosjean (who was always labeled as needing a sports psychologist before he left the sport) then come back to f1.
It would be ideal if Albon could have a chance directly pitted against Gasly. But It seems that seat is for Tsunoda. You probably know I am a big Max fan and besides his outbursts and then finding it hard to admit it was wrong (which also ís hard) I really don’t see him as toxic. I think he can also be very fair and friendly. He hasn’t made any sneaky/snarky comments about Gasly or Albon that I am aware off? Do you feel redbull environment is so toxic? The seem like a sportsmanship team to me, young mechanics, enthusiastic bunch. Simon Rennie came back to help Albon. Marko can be harsh and maybe Horner A bit dishonoust? For me he is usually just doing his job, I have seen the exact same lies from Toto, Abiteboul, Snafzauer (constantly) etc. Etc.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:05 pm
@phil, Russell was on 40 laps old whites and desperate to keep his P10, he wanted to keep as much heat in his tires as possible.

Actually, this is something I find very recognizable also in my own sporting, you worry so much about something that it can stop you from proper decision making. Here f.el Russell still had a full lap of unlapping to warm up his tires, no need for the risk. But he worried so much he took more risk than needed. At the start, Verstappen already said saturday he worried about the right hand side of the grid being in a slightly better spot (with that slight twist to the right on the straight) so he put the car a little angled and what must have been on the extremest edge of it. Couldn’t have been more than a few mm left for collecting a false start. Risk/reward based on your own fears skewed. Hamilton in Russia. He was so fearfull of the long run (rightly so, not an attack) to turn 1 that he wanted to practice the start on perfectly similar asphalt twice. Which got him the penalty, not reopening that discussion but it is for me a similar example of risk VS reward “stuck in own mind) skewed thinking.

My point is, they all do sometimes get caught up in that. It was not a silly error but a driver under (also a bit self induced) pressure trying to keep his spot and seeing (rightfully) threats to that, but taking too much risk in the process.
I feel bad for Russel, but I had to chuckle at Kimi and his engineer's radio messages while Russell headed for the wall.

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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Haven’t heared those yet. It’s fine to have a laugh at eachother every once and again, as long as it is not too mean spirited. Kimi doesn’t care about sensitivity, but he is usually fair enough.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:09 am
Haven’t heared those yet. It’s fine to have a laugh at eachother every once and again, as long as it is not too mean spirited. Kimi doesn’t care about sensitivity, but he is usually fair enough.
Nah not mean at all. Just Kimi being Kimi. :D



Around the 3:09 mark. :mrgreen:

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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:20 pm

It would be ideal if Albon could have a chance directly pitted against Gasly. But It seems that seat is for Tsunoda. You probably know I am a big Max fan and besides his outbursts and then finding it hard to admit it was wrong (which also ís hard) I really don’t see him as toxic. I think he can also be very fair and friendly. He hasn’t made any sneaky/snarky comments about Gasly or Albon that I am aware off? Do you feel redbull environment is so toxic? The seem like a sportsmanship team to me, young mechanics, enthusiastic bunch. Simon Rennie came back to help Albon. Marko can be harsh and maybe Horner A bit dishonoust? For me he is usually just doing his job, I have seen the exact same lies from Toto, Abiteboul, Snafzauer (constantly) etc. Etc.
Max is accompanied by his daddy Jos; who is feel has too much of a presence in the garage; Same for Marko. Max seems to be toxic behind people's backs with his words and the stuff he says. But gets a little afraid when he is face to face or interviewed to clarify what he says. For example when he said he wanted Hamilton's car, and Lewis got serious and asked him what he just said.. he all of sudden back tracked and gave a soft explanation as to why he wants to drive Hamilton's car. He really wanted to say he would be faster in it; but was afraid to say that to Hamilton.
So yes i don't think he is a bully, but i feel his spoiled brat and disgregard for what comes out of his mouth coupled with his backers has created a somewhat stifling garage for Albon. And this is my guess by the way. I really dont know.
What i do know is that that Albon and Gasly perform better when they are not in the team. And i dont buy Horner's explantion that the car is harder to drive. I think that is BS. It's too kind on its tyres to be a hard to drive car.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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ringo wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:39 am
Sieper wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:20 pm

It would be ideal if Albon could have a chance directly pitted against Gasly. But It seems that seat is for Tsunoda. You probably know I am a big Max fan and besides his outbursts and then finding it hard to admit it was wrong (which also ís hard) I really don’t see him as toxic. I think he can also be very fair and friendly. He hasn’t made any sneaky/snarky comments about Gasly or Albon that I am aware off? Do you feel redbull environment is so toxic? The seem like a sportsmanship team to me, young mechanics, enthusiastic bunch. Simon Rennie came back to help Albon. Marko can be harsh and maybe Horner A bit dishonoust? For me he is usually just doing his job, I have seen the exact same lies from Toto, Abiteboul, Snafzauer (constantly) etc. Etc.
Max is accompanied by his daddy Jos; who is feel has too much of a presence in the garage; Same for Marko. Max seems to be toxic behind people's backs with his words and the stuff he says. But gets a little afraid when he is face to face or interviewed to clarify what he says. For example when he said he wanted Hamilton's car, and Lewis got serious and asked him what he just said.. he all of sudden back tracked and gave a soft explanation as to why he wants to drive Hamilton's car. He really wanted to say he would be faster in it; but was afraid to say that to Hamilton.
So yes i don't think he is a bully, but i feel his spoiled brat and disgregard for what comes out of his mouth coupled with his backers has created a somewhat stifling garage for Albon. And this is my guess by the way. I really dont know.
What i do know is that that Albon and Gasly perform better when they are not in the team. And i dont buy Horner's explantion that the car is harder to drive. I think that is BS. It's too kind on its tyres to be a hard to drive car.
Well, Lewis does that all the time making small remarks (or big ones) to show he knows he is the better one. Isn't that part of it. It is the part I like least, just drive. But I don't really think it is a discredit or would call him toxic, bully, spoiled for that. For a long time he addressed Max as "that guy" couldn't even bring his name out. That is much more disrespectful than suggesting you think you yourself might be quicker imho. Max has never returned that favor, not once. But it could just as well honestly be about the car, he feels the car of this season is better. Lewis is so well versed in these games he immediately drove it to this point, but like you said, we don't know what is the point of it. I think he really just wanted to emphasize the difference in car. He has always been, and is now, very clear about how good he thinks Lewis is. Lewis has also made that clear about Max on several occasions. I really think you seek to much into what he says. I don't see him as a wordsgame player. It usually is abundantly clear what he thinks. I do see Lewis in that way, he is always saying things that make you feel, what? And when asked about it then always has like you think Max does a soft explanation on the ready and how dare the interviewer even suggest that was what he meant. I guess that is why I support one and you the other, ahaha, we both think the same points are bad and good about them both. They both have their flaws imho and they both are on the very top level of driving too.

I agree with you the car can't be that hard to drive, but in that regard Max can never do it good too.

If he is beaten by a teammate, see how incredibly overrated I always said so.
If they are equalish, see how overrated,
If Max beats teammate in normal way, see how close, Albon is better because just arrived in team.
If he clearly beats teammate. Well, but he is in the team very long, all focused on him.
If he devastates teammate. Toxic environment, very skewed, see how much better they are when competing with someone else.

So if a young driver gets the chance in the RBR car it will always mean Max rep gets a dig. Really the only option for that not to happen would be a A list driver, and still. And f.e. Gasly was not that far off in qualy speed to Max last year (in beginning of season it wasn't even a given they came into Q3) so it was a struggle for both. F.e. last race Gasly was almost 2 tenths faster than Kvyat. For me that is always an acceptable gap (not a devastation of Kvyat). But Gasly was on P4 and Kvyat because the midfield is so close now (actually only Mercedes is really away from the pack and even Max was not always able to come to the second start row this year) is then quite some places away. Is Gasly now suddenly a wonderworker. Imho not, He clearly beats Kvyat but he did that before as well. when at RBR main team he suffered mostly in the race, having a hard time overtaking and defending poorly, just not matching the pace. I do feel he is now doing that better. He has grown and his confidence is up too.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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I totally get what you mean about Hamilton and his small remarks. I'm not sure though if that is attributed to him wanting to show he is the "better one". I think he, as an athlete, is just extremely competitive. If he feels he did a good job in qualifying, I think he'd say so, even if he gets beaten. If he feels he made a mistake and therefore got outqualified, he may point that out too, which IMO is fine, although might come across the wrong way.

It's a tough situation though. For sure the Mercedes is extremely dominant car. That's not Hamilton's fault, though I can get the mindset of different drivers who feel he has a relative easy job in securing championships. But in the end, all the drivers face the same challenge. They have to be competitive in the car they drive and the only true measure of everyone is them against their team-mate. Beyond that, it's a team sport and effort where the package is key.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:00 am
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:11 pm
A few mtr sooner and those track workers would have been grit blasted too
and grosjean would have cried like a baby over a broken finger thanks to a spot of grit :lol: #-o
I know we take the pee out of him for it, but I still remember a stone about that size thrown up by a truck hitting me in the chest. I had full bike gear on but was black and blue from shoulders to crutch for a couple of weeks, and I was probably below 100 mph. I was lucky to stay on the bike too.

I tend to think it should defiantly be a consideration. 170 mph is 250 fps. that's a lot of energy if it hits a person even if it is only 500g
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:16 am
I totally get what you mean about Hamilton and his small remarks. I'm not sure though if that is attributed to him wanting to show he is the "better one". I think he, as an athlete, is just extremely competitive. If he feels he did a good job in qualifying, I think he'd say so, even if he gets beaten. If he feels he made a mistake and therefore got outqualified, he may point that out too, which IMO is fine, although might come across the wrong way.

It's a tough situation though. For sure the Mercedes is extremely dominant car. That's not Hamilton's fault, though I can get the mindset of different drivers who feel he has a relative easy job in securing championships. But in the end, all the drivers face the same challenge. They have to be competitive in the car they drive and the only true measure of everyone is them against their team-mate. Beyond that, it's a team sport and effort where the package is key.
Fully agree. They have to be extremely careful what they say. Like you say f.e. If they give a reason For being outqualified if and when it happens—> It will be interpreted as making excuses. They are all saying less and less. Not only fans Offcourse looking for any opening, but also news sites needing clicks. That is not to say all drivers are totally sensible all the times or ego’s are not in play, or competitiveness, but it does create an environment.

Hamilton is in that car because he deserves to be. No doubt. For the competition this year it is unfortunate, but so too that Ferrari is sitting on the blisters of going down a grey development path (words of Binotto, not me).
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Anyone have a vid of the moment Bottas went over the debris from Seb's car ?
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Anyone have a vid of the moment Bottas went over the debris from Seb's car ?
Iv'e not seen any yet, but it shouldnt be too hard to find. Was Lap 2 on the exit of Tosa. Although it may be easily missed as it was probably just flat on the floor.
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Anyone have a vid of the moment Bottas went over the debris from Seb's car ?
I have an F1 TV access, but I couldn't see it because Bottas' onboard cam was set to record Verstappen and you cant see what happened ahead of the Mercedes... :?