2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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dans79
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Phil wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Isn't this whole discussion about unlapping a bit moot? The goal of a GP is to do the mileage. If you don't unlap the cars and simply add some fancy math, they will not have done the mileage when they cross the line. I think part of the achievement of a GP is doing the entire mileage, not cutting them short by a lap.
If memory serves, if you are a lap or more down at the end of the race, you don't have to complete the laps you are down by once the leader crosses the line! So at best, letting cars unlap themselves is at best a partial solution.
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nzjrs
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:06 pm
Phil wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Isn't this whole discussion about unlapping a bit moot? The goal of a GP is to do the mileage. If you don't unlap the cars and simply add some fancy math, they will not have done the mileage when they cross the line. I think part of the achievement of a GP is doing the entire mileage, not cutting them short by a lap.
If memory serves, if you are a lap or more down at the end of the race, you don't have to complete the laps you are down by once the leader crosses the line! So at best, letting cars unlap themselves is at best a partial solution.
While on this point, does anyone know when this changed (you just have to finish the lap you are on when once the leader passes the checkered flag)? Was it ever that everyone had to do the mileage?

i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:09 am
SiLo wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:41 pm
Don't understand why they dont just tell lapped cars to drop to the back of the pack and then add a lap on, would be much safer
The timing system can't deal with that, it's been suggested several times in the past and that's always the reason they give.
So update it? It's 2020 not 1995
It's not just some bit of code running on Masi's laptop, it's based on the telemetry/transponder data streamed from the cars during the race. It's not as easy as just adding/removing the lap, the telemetry for the lap needs to exist.
Last edited by i70q7m7ghw on Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:54 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:06 pm
Why not have all lapped cars enter the pit lane as the 'parade' passes, then release them 20 seconds after the last car on the prime lap passes?
They will then have a delta to maintain position until restart.
Can be done with in 2 laps.
unfair advantage for the competition, the lapped cars will have colder tires.
that's what they'd say i'm sure of it.

indeed i think the best way is to have the lapped cars drop back, then qeue up.
a good programmer would fix any 'lap' issues without a problem.
I don't see the complicated issues either.
then again, what are we really talking about. 2 1/2 minutes, tops?
what's really the big fuss about?
It's significantly more complicated than just moving some numbers around in the code used for the live timing you watch on the F1 website. There's a fantastic post on this very forum that goes into detail on how timing systems work in motorsport https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 25#p703625

mzso
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Is it me or does it look awfully suspicious that the VSC was orchestrated to favor Hamilton? They waited a lot before calling it, right when Hamilton was near the pit entry.
And as soon as his tire change was done, they lifted it.

mzso
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Diesel wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:09 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:09 am


The timing system can't deal with that, it's been suggested several times in the past and that's always the reason they give.
So update it? It's 2020 not 1995
It's not just some bit of code running on Masi's laptop, it's based on the telemetry/transponder data streamed from the cars during the race. It's not as easy as just adding/removing the lap, the telemetry for the lap needs to exist.
I think driver confusion is bigger issue. One or two was lapped twice the others once. And they each need to drop back. They need to find who to drop back behind who also goes back behind some other driver (unless it's the first lapped driver). I would expect huge lame confusions, maybe some contact as well.

i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Thinking about it a bit more, it might be possible to do it as a restart i.e. "reset" the race as if it was restarting after a red flag.

wesley123
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:44 pm
Is it me or does it look awfully suspicious that the VSC was orchestrated to favor Hamilton? They waited a lot before calling it, right when Hamilton was near the pit entry.
And as soon as his tire change was done, they lifted it.
Afaik it is automatically a VSC if there are marshalls on track. If a car is in neutral and close to a post so it can be away from the track quickly the VSC would be very short.

I find it difficult to believe it was 'orchestrated' when;
1. Hamilton pulled the required gap
2. Bottas was slow as f*** on the hard tire
3. Hamilton received some questionable penalties earlier this season.
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mzso
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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wesley123 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 am
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:44 pm
Is it me or does it look awfully suspicious that the VSC was orchestrated to favor Hamilton? They waited a lot before calling it, right when Hamilton was near the pit entry.
And as soon as his tire change was done, they lifted it.
Afaik it is automatically a VSC if there are marshalls on track. If a car is in neutral and close to a post so it can be away from the track quickly the VSC would be very short.
Yet they waited a lot of time before going to VSC. Right until the time Hamilton was approaching the pit entry.

wesley123
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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So? It happens, sometimes drivers get lucky under a VSC. But like I said, there was literally no point to 'favor' Hamilton to begin with
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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mzso wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:46 am
wesley123 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 am
mzso wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:44 pm
Is it me or does it look awfully suspicious that the VSC was orchestrated to favor Hamilton? They waited a lot before calling it, right when Hamilton was near the pit entry.
And as soon as his tire change was done, they lifted it.
Afaik it is automatically a VSC if there are marshalls on track. If a car is in neutral and close to a post so it can be away from the track quickly the VSC would be very short.
Yet they waited a lot of time before going to VSC. Right until the time Hamilton was approaching the pit entry.
Is this the same race director that penalised Hamilton only recently for safety car issue and practice start infractions? Or is it only a conspiracy when you think it helps Hamilton?
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SiLo
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:08 am
mzso wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:46 am
wesley123 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 am


Afaik it is automatically a VSC if there are marshalls on track. If a car is in neutral and close to a post so it can be away from the track quickly the VSC would be very short.
Yet they waited a lot of time before going to VSC. Right until the time Hamilton was approaching the pit entry.
Is this the same race director that penalised Hamilton only recently for safety car issue and practice start infractions? Or is it only a conspiracy when you think it helps Hamilton?
The cognitive dissonance is astounding sometimes.
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mzso
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:08 am
mzso wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:46 am
wesley123 wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:38 am


Afaik it is automatically a VSC if there are marshalls on track. If a car is in neutral and close to a post so it can be away from the track quickly the VSC would be very short.
Yet they waited a lot of time before going to VSC. Right until the time Hamilton was approaching the pit entry.
Is this the same race director that penalised Hamilton only recently for safety car issue and practice start infractions? Or is it only a conspiracy when you think it helps Hamilton?
Somehow SCs are always to the gain of Hamilton.
As for obviously breaking a rule, of they're gonna punish anyone, other teams would go to court.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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mzso wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:17 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:08 am
mzso wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:46 am


Yet they waited a lot of time before going to VSC. Right until the time Hamilton was approaching the pit entry.
Is this the same race director that penalised Hamilton only recently for safety car issue and practice start infractions? Or is it only a conspiracy when you think it helps Hamilton?
Somehow SCs are always to the gain of Hamilton.
As for obviously breaking a rule, of they're gonna punish anyone, other teams would go to court.
That's not true. Most of them earlier in the season tended to constantly erase big leads he had built over the field and gave everyone else huge second chances to get at him and give 'exciting' finishes to races. Off the top of my head combined with other things a couple of safety cars have cost him positions and points.

I happen to think they were very trigger happy with full SC early in the season for the reason of artificially bunching up the field.

The VSC in Imola was well timed for him but the full SC was definitely not as he'd just gone past the pit lane and he caught it up. I think he only narrowly avoided the choice of either not pitting which would be a huge disadvantage, or pitting but losing positions.

It's a coin flip. He lucked out in Imola, but luck is all it was.

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Re: 2020 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Oct 31 - Nov 01

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It is also normal that any SC will always kill the lead of all front runners, not just Hamilton. That is not bad luck. As soon as a SC comes your lead is eliminated. You cannot luck out of that.
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