2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
MtthsMlw
987
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

I can hear this picture

User avatar
Wouter
625
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:13 pm
.
I can hear this picture
:lol: :lol: :lol:

dans79
dans79
393
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:06 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:26 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:56 pm
Knowing he is probably the fastest guy on the grid with all the required talent, but not having the right machinery to compete for championship.
I think he is 3rd best behind Hamilton and Vettel, and next year he might be forth best depending how much mojo Alonso has left!
https://i.ibb.co/q0bKR2V/20201119-003218.jpg
It's called an opinion, I'm sorry if you can't handle it!
173 101 99 7

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
528
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:56 pm
Max must be feeling like the way Hamilton felt from 2009 to 2013. Knowing he is probably the fastest guy on the grid with all the required talent, but not having the right machinery to compete for championship. That pressure of overdriving and the frustration of always falling short, not him being the reason for it mostly. If Hamilton signs for another few years with Mercedes, it's difficult to imagine how long will Max maintain sanity of his situation.
Yeah. It is easy to froget Max is in his sixth year! without any championship success. This long wait must be doing him in. He surely must feel that the Gods of sport must smile on a man of his talent. It is going to mentally break him if this drought continues to 2022.

He will have to be patient and pray that he gets in a position to fight soon. RedBull has to find something. Otherise... It may not be till 2026 (New engine regs) before things change. Max would be 12 years into his career and 29 years old.. Still young but he will be broken wisp of a driver by then.
.. ... ... ... ...

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
9
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:56 pm
To cap those four posts off- Not everyone can be as talented as Bottas lads. I mean, there is always a reason for his errors. It is never him.

26 years of watching this sport and never seen a driver with a worse attitude. I no longer even care he's in the second seat. For a legend like Mercedes, to see him represent the brand just crushes me. Specially with the talent and the pure characters in F1 at the moment. Can't even imagine him in a Ferrari. It would end my love for the brand.

All those saying Bottas spun the first time avoiding Ocon is the biggest load of BS I have heard. Watch his on board, he carries way too much speed, realises it too late, locks up all on his own and spins. No one touched him.

Then he ran into Ocon again on the same lap. Lord knows how many times he spun? 8?
I think it's pretty obvious he has to touch his brakes again to avoid Ocon at T1. Track falls away and having to brake and unload the rear when you've made your best guess at grip levels and arriving with cold tyres. On that surface the spin isn't surprising. But it wasn't the dumbest spin of the day that's for sure.

User avatar
Schuttelberg
72
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:02 am

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Mchamilton wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:08 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:56 pm
To cap those four posts off- Not everyone can be as talented as Bottas lads. I mean, there is always a reason for his errors. It is never him.

26 years of watching this sport and never seen a driver with a worse attitude. I no longer even care he's in the second seat. For a legend like Mercedes, to see him represent the brand just crushes me. Specially with the talent and the pure characters in F1 at the moment. Can't even imagine him in a Ferrari. It would end my love for the brand.

All those saying Bottas spun the first time avoiding Ocon is the biggest load of BS I have heard. Watch his on board, he carries way too much speed, realises it too late, locks up all on his own and spins. No one touched him.

Then he ran into Ocon again on the same lap. Lord knows how many times he spun? 8?
I think it's pretty obvious he has to touch his brakes again to avoid Ocon at T1. Track falls away and having to brake and unload the rear when you've made your best guess at grip levels and arriving with cold tyres. On that surface the spin isn't surprising. But it wasn't the dumbest spin of the day that's for sure.
I mean he spun 7 times. So take your pick. And this time, even a swarm of bees didn't attack him! :lol:
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

User avatar
Phil
434
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Driving in wet conditions is a matter of confidence. Confidence in yourself and in the car. Bottas had neither during the race, perhaps as a result of the first spin, lack of heat in the tires or a culmination of both. To hit on him because he span that many times is doing an injustice to him and what how he has performed throughout the season. He may be no wet weather master, nor does he need to be. Rosberg wasnt either, btw.

Sometimes, events compound each other. And in the end, Bottas is the only driver who is being measured against Hamilton in equal machinery. None of the others are.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

User avatar
Sieper
150
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:55 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:06 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:26 pm


I think he is 3rd best behind Hamilton and Vettel, and next year he might be forth best depending how much mojo Alonso has left!
https://i.ibb.co/q0bKR2V/20201119-003218.jpg
It's called an opinion, I'm sorry if you can't handle it!
It is yours! Everyone has one and like you say, rightfully so. May I ask, you judge Verstappen behind Hamilton and (potentially, if he returns well) Alonso, but even Vettel? That really surprises me. And has your opinion on Max changed over the year(s)? Do you rate Vettel higher than Leclerc?
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

oT v1
oT v1
1
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

I think if Merc had a problem with Bottas they would act very swiftly.

Drivers + constructors (again) and a fairly harmonious garage, Merc is happy and Bottas gets a win now and again when he is on top form or Lewis has a bad day.

I’d rather Merc continued like this while Lewis is going strong, instead of a “Lewis is faster than you” and moving a talent out of the way to get the same results. I admit I felt the same way about Webber when Seb was stomping everyone in the RBR, wishing someone would put up a fight, but it’s the right set up for the constructor.
The Power of Dreams

User avatar
Mogster
1
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

oT v1 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:25 pm
I think if Merc had a problem with Bottas they would act very swiftly.

Drivers + constructors (again) and a fairly harmonious garage, Merc is happy and Bottas gets a win now and again when he is on top form or Lewis has a bad day.

I’d rather Merc continued like this while Lewis is going strong, instead of a “Lewis is faster than you” and moving a talent out of the way to get the same results. I admit I felt the same way about Webber when Seb was stomping everyone in the RBR, wishing someone would put up a fight, but it’s the right set up for the constructor.
Yes, the combination of Hamilton and Bottas is perfect for Mercedes.

Bottas keeps Hamilton on his toes on Saturday and is fast enough for the team to finish 1-2 in the race mostly. Bottas doesn’t mess with Hamilton’s head, follows team instructions and typically lacks a bit of race pace compared to Lewis. Lacking a bit of race pace means team orders normally aren’t an issue, Merc can legitimately prioritise Hamilton in the race and he can do his thing unmolested while Bottas falls naturally into position as rear gunner. The situation is absolutely perfect for Mercedes.

User avatar
SiLo
126
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Ferrari proved it was the best, and Mercedes have just followed suit (finally).
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
nevill3
34
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Monaco

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:46 pm

Yeah. It is easy to froget Max is in his sixth year! without any championship success. This long wait must be doing him in. He surely must feel that the Gods of sport must smile on a man of his talent. It is going to mentally break him if this drought continues to 2022.

He will have to be patient and pray that he gets in a position to fight soon. RedBull has to find something. Otherise... It may not be till 2026 (New engine regs) before things change. Max would be 12 years into his career and 29 years old.. Still young but he will be broken wisp of a driver by then.
Will Max be the new Alonso......so much talent, yet no (or very few) WDCs. I can see him leaving RedBull if he doesn't get a winning car next year only to find his move to Ferrari or Mercedes coincides with a surprise RedBull WDC (Albon :wink: ) and so on and so forth just like Alonso did
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

zibby43
zibby43
669
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

Phil wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:10 am
Driving in wet conditions is a matter of confidence. Confidence in yourself and in the car. Bottas had neither during the race, perhaps as a result of the first spin, lack of heat in the tires or a culmination of both. To hit on him because he span that many times is doing an injustice to him and what how he has performed throughout the season. He may be no wet weather master, nor does he need to be. Rosberg wasnt either, btw.

Sometimes, events compound each other. And in the end, Bottas is the only driver who is being measured against Hamilton in equal machinery. None of the others are.
"[Bottas'] lap one collision with Esteban Ocon’s Renault at Turn 9 damaged his steering and front wing. That meant he was running out of lock to correct rear slides. Which is why he spun six times.

And every time he spun he’d lose all the tyre temperature he’d just spent many laps building up. So he’d have to start again from scratch. That’s 49 of the 58 laps he spent out of the tyre temperature window. He had them back in by the end, when he set the second-fastest lap of the race."


- Mark Hughes' Race Report

Bottas, with his rallying experience, is usually one of the best on the grid when it comes to car control. Especially on green/slippery tracks (as demonstrated by his usual prowess in FP1).

As stated above, the steering rack damage is what doomed Bottas; it left him unable to correct slides, and the slides kept him trapped in a vicious cycle of trying to build tire temperature (being on cold tires leaves you even more vulnerable to slides in the meantime).

LM10
LM10
132
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

nevill3 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:30 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:46 pm

Yeah. It is easy to froget Max is in his sixth year! without any championship success. This long wait must be doing him in. He surely must feel that the Gods of sport must smile on a man of his talent. It is going to mentally break him if this drought continues to 2022.

He will have to be patient and pray that he gets in a position to fight soon. RedBull has to find something. Otherise... It may not be till 2026 (New engine regs) before things change. Max would be 12 years into his career and 29 years old.. Still young but he will be broken wisp of a driver by then.
Will Max be the new Alonso......so much talent, yet no (or very few) WDCs. I can see him leaving RedBull if he doesn't get a winning car next year only to find his move to Ferrari or Mercedes coincides with a surprise RedBull WDC (Albon :wink: ) and so on and so forth just like Alonso did
As for Ferrari, I don’t think they’re interested in a driver who called them cheaters.

63l8qrrfy6
63l8qrrfy6
374
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

Post

LM10 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:03 pm
As for Ferrari, I don’t think they’re interested in a driver who called them cheaters.
I don't really agree - any team would snap up Max given the chance. Ferrari are pragmatic enough to put such comments behind. I do however think that sooner or later Max will end up at Mercedes.
oT v1 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:25 pm
I admit I felt the same way about Webber when Seb was stomping everyone in the RBR, wishing someone would put up a fight, but it’s the right set up for the constructor.
Webber wasn't too bad for a number 2 :)