2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:28 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:50 am
I have a question about the Albon photo. Does it not look like Max has a normal amount of wing in the background?
I'm not doubting they adjusted the front wing incorrectly , but it seems like in a weeks time there will be photos of Max's car without a front wing at all. As someone else mentioned, why didnt RedBull spot this with the sensors ? The driver should have been made aware if it was such an issue.
Why did Max have to be aware of this? He kept indicating that something was wrong, he felt that while driving, but they only found out after the race where it had gone wrong.
What's the point of going on about this? Now focus on Bahrain.

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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:11 pm
Why did Max have to be aware of this? He kept indicating that something was wrong, he felt that while driving, but they only found out after the race where it had gone wrong.
What's the point of going on about this? Now focus on Bahrain.
To me this is weird. These cars are laden with sensors so they know if they start losing downforce, or if there is an imbalance from aero loads. So it's weird they did not catch it. If they did catch it, then it is also strange they did not swap the wings out.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:11 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:28 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:50 am
I have a question about the Albon photo. Does it not look like Max has a normal amount of wing in the background?
I'm not doubting they adjusted the front wing incorrectly , but it seems like in a weeks time there will be photos of Max's car without a front wing at all. As someone else mentioned, why didnt RedBull spot this with the sensors ? The driver should have been made aware if it was such an issue.
Why did Max have to be aware of this? He kept indicating that something was wrong, he felt that while driving, but they only found out after the race where it had gone wrong.
What's the point of going on about this? Now focus on Bahrain.
If the wing was causing any issues, RedBull should have spotted it, then had the crew ready to get it sorted in the next pit stop. All I'm saying is, why didnt they ?
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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:55 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:11 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:28 am


I'm not doubting they adjusted the front wing incorrectly , but it seems like in a weeks time there will be photos of Max's car without a front wing at all. As someone else mentioned, why didnt RedBull spot this with the sensors ? The driver should have been made aware if it was such an issue.
Why did Max have to be aware of this? He kept indicating that something was wrong, he felt that while driving, but they only found out after the race where it had gone wrong.
What's the point of going on about this? Now focus on Bahrain.
If the wing was causing any issues, RedBull should have spotted it, then had the crew ready to get it sorted in the next pit stop. All I'm saying is, why didnt they ?
Red Bull monitors everything about the car, both with the naked eye and using sensors.
“I do wonder why the team did not notice it”, says Van den Heijkant, aerodinamologist. “They still have the data at their disposal. Then it could have been adjusted at the second stop. Although it may be that these data have been less reliable due to the weather conditions. ”

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hollus
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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They might have a front load measurement, but they would not have separate sensors for front left and front right loads, at least not at wing level. The overall front load might have been about normal in average, and only out of whack in the corners. Hard to spot in changeable conditions with more ground clearance than in any calibration run.
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SiLo
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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hollus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:25 pm
They might have a front load measurement, but they would not have separate sensors for front left and front right loads, at least not at wing level. The overall front load might have been about normal in average, and only out of whack in the corners. Hard to spot in changeable conditions with more ground clearance than in any calibration run.
They absolutely have load sensors that could detect this. I remember during a Merc factory tour they said they had sensors in the elements so they knew specifically which element had an issue.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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To me it doesnt matter.

RedBull did not notice it and Max did not notice it.

Means it had no effect. The car was going slow anyway in the rain. The fastest speed they went was 170mph on the back straight and through the corners they were maybe 90mph. Nothing of concern. Max didn't even feel any weird imbalance to report. He was the fastest on track and carving it up like a Turkish shish-kebab.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Something i noticed here..

Tyre wear really came to a grinding halt. The one stop wear looks the same as the two stop wear, at least on the fronts. Look at Ferrari and Merc tyres similar wear bands.

Image
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm
Something i noticed here..

Tyre wear really came to a grinding halt. The one stop wear looks the same as the two stop wear, at least on the fronts. Look at Ferrari and Merc tyres similar wear bands.
Isn't this just showing the difference between the cars. Mercedes are kind to the tyres - they took time to warm the tyres all weekend. Ferrari are able to heat their tyres much quicker and of course that also means they wore them quicker.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:14 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm
Something i noticed here..

Tyre wear really came to a grinding halt. The one stop wear looks the same as the two stop wear, at least on the fronts. Look at Ferrari and Merc tyres similar wear bands.
Isn't this just showing the difference between the cars. Mercedes are kind to the tyres - they took time to warm the tyres all weekend. Ferrari are able to heat their tyres much quicker and of course that also means they wore them quicker.
The contact patches look similar at least. So the kinematics were not much different. One could say even the tyre pressures were not far off either. I feel the strategist should have decided to leave Vettel on the track.
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:18 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:14 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm
Something i noticed here..

Tyre wear really came to a grinding halt. The one stop wear looks the same as the two stop wear, at least on the fronts. Look at Ferrari and Merc tyres similar wear bands.
Isn't this just showing the difference between the cars. Mercedes are kind to the tyres - they took time to warm the tyres all weekend. Ferrari are able to heat their tyres much quicker and of course that also means they wore them quicker.
The contact patches look similar at least. So the kinematics were not much different. One could say even the tyre pressures were not far off either. I feel the strategist should have decided to leave Vettel on the track.
Vettel's tyres had done 25 laps compared to Hamilton's 50 laps and they look the same. Do you think Vettel's tyres would have looked like that after another 25 laps? Really?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Moore77
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:18 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:14 pm


Isn't this just showing the difference between the cars. Mercedes are kind to the tyres - they took time to warm the tyres all weekend. Ferrari are able to heat their tyres much quicker and of course that also means they wore them quicker.
The contact patches look similar at least. So the kinematics were not much different. One could say even the tyre pressures were not far off either. I feel the strategist should have decided to leave Vettel on the track.
Vettel's tyres had done 25 laps compared to Hamilton's 50 laps and they look the same. Do you think Vettel's tyres would have looked like that after another 25 laps? Really?
How do you it wouldn't have looked the same or better? It was a race of unknowns for everyone. Traditional wisdom of measuring the tyres by the look of it was useless. Heck, even all of their simulation data turned out to be junk. One stopper and going longer turned out to be more fruitful than usual change for new tyres for "better grip".
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Mogster
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:33 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:18 pm


The contact patches look similar at least. So the kinematics were not much different. One could say even the tyre pressures were not far off either. I feel the strategist should have decided to leave Vettel on the track.
Vettel's tyres had done 25 laps compared to Hamilton's 50 laps and they look the same. Do you think Vettel's tyres would have looked like that after another 25 laps? Really?
How do you it wouldn't have looked the same or better? It was a race of unknowns for everyone. Traditional wisdom of measuring the tyres by the look of it was useless. Heck, even all of their simulation data turned out to be junk. One stopper and going longer turned out to be more fruitful than usual change for new tyres for "better grip".
The pit entry/exit was very slippery. If you didn’t have an incident it was still slowing down pit stops. The chance of a China 2007 type incident was high, Lewis said he said that was part of his decision not to pit.

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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:33 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:18 pm


The contact patches look similar at least. So the kinematics were not much different. One could say even the tyre pressures were not far off either. I feel the strategist should have decided to leave Vettel on the track.
Vettel's tyres had done 25 laps compared to Hamilton's 50 laps and they look the same. Do you think Vettel's tyres would have looked like that after another 25 laps? Really?
How do you it wouldn't have looked the same or better? It was a race of unknowns for everyone. Traditional wisdom of measuring the tyres by the look of it was useless. Heck, even all of their simulation data turned out to be junk. One stopper and going longer turned out to be more fruitful than usual change for new tyres for "better grip".
Vettel's tyres look the same after 25 laps as Hamilton's did after 50 laps. They were unlikely to look better if they'd also done 50 laps would they?

The Mercs are known to be easier on the tyres than Ferrari this year - something they've worked hard on. Hamilton has also worked on tyre life over the years and is now one of the best in that regard.

The likelihood is that the Ferrari's tyres wouldn't have been in as good a shape as the Mercedes's tyres because they have generally been worse over the season to date. That basic comparison between how the cars work their tyres is unlikely to have been suddenly reversed even by the unusual conditions in Turkey.
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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Turkish Grand Prix - Instanbul Park, Nov 13 - 15

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:49 pm
To me it doesnt matter.

RedBull did not notice it and Max did not notice it.

Means it had no effect. The car was going slow anyway in the rain. The fastest speed they went was 170mph on the back straight and through the corners they were maybe 90mph. Nothing of concern. Max didn't even feel any weird imbalance to report. He was the fastest on track and carving it up like a Turkish shish-kebab.
I have watched the general television broadcast only (all sessions) and Max had been reporting understeer all weekend. He also wondered why he was not able to even keep up with the Mclaren's (I think that was stint in in Q1) or maybe during FP3, don't remember but that was what was broadcasted in the TV feed for everyone to hear. How did you come to the conclusion Max did not notice anything?
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