2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:43 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:00 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:20 pm
This train was 4 sec off the pace of Hamilton in some laps. I do not think there is a good excuse for not being able to overtake at the speed the others were going.
4 sec off the pace across an entire lap. Not 4 seconds faster down the straight. To overtake during a DRS zone, you need a high speed differential and a long enough straight. And you need to be close enough too.
Leclerc showed last year that, even with cars of similar speed, you can overtake, if you drive better. There are abundant incidents where cars with half a second per lap pace advantage can overtake in Sakhir. Even there are examples of similarly matched cars, like Ricciardo showed yesterday, you can overtake. With 4 seconds per lap advantage, you can lap the entire field.
LEC showed last year that when you dump in as much fuel as you want disregarding the fuel regulations you can rack up pole positions and overtake cars of "similar speed"

Nathanael F1
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:20 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:00 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:20 pm
This train was 4 sec off the pace of Hamilton in some laps. I do not think there is a good excuse for not being able to overtake at the speed the others were going.
4 sec off the pace across an entire lap. Not 4 seconds faster down the straight. To overtake during a DRS zone, you need a high speed differential and a long enough straight. And you need to be close enough too.
Bottas has never been good on race pace, following and pressurizing a car in front or wheel to wheel fight. He’s driving the (by far) fastest car on the grid and fastest car in F1 history, yet struggles to overtake an Alfa Romeo for several laps, one of the slowest 3 cars with a 40-50 hp down on power engine.

If he can’t manage to come close enough to this dog of car in his W11, then there is no argument left for his race pace abilities really.
Plus the Alfa Romeo had front wing damage!
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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mzso wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:47 pm
Rare three wheel pit stop :D
And yes that's legal before you ask..
But why? And what's the rule for it?
He took a set of mediums at his stop on lap 25, and then pitted again on lap 38.

Rather than go to the unfavoured softs, the team took the opportunity to re-fit the medium set that he had run in qualifying and at the start of the race, but without the punctured right front – and thus he kept the well-used tyre that was already on that corner.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... n=widget-1

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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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maxxer wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:39 pm
Anyway i found it quite surprising how they could lift the whole damaged section of barrier out of the ground with one forklift shouldnt this be mounted on proper foundation? No wonder it takes so long to build new roads in my country
The terminal posts should be solidly mounted (the start and end), the posts in between shouldn’t.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

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Juzh
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:27 pm
mzso wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:22 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:47 pm
Rare three wheel pit stop :D
And yes that's legal before you ask..
But why? And what's the rule for it?
He took a set of mediums at his stop on lap 25, and then pitted again on lap 38.

Rather than go to the unfavoured softs, the team took the opportunity to re-fit the medium set that he had run in qualifying and at the start of the race, but without the punctured right front – and thus he kept the well-used tyre that was already on that corner.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... n=widget-1
How strange, but at least it would explain some lack of pace. Why not use hards? None left?

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:44 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:12 pm
There was a time when people could overtake without DRS...
And I'm saying, there are set up considerations to consider. They don't set up the Mercedes to drive in traffic - it's setup for the high probability of it driving in clean air at the front, maximizing lap time over high speed on the straights. Factor cooling into that, as well as overall downforce. Bottas got himself into traffic in a DRS train of other cars with similar or better top speeds. It really isn't rocket science.
Those were the days of heavy reliance on front wing when Mercedes used to struggle in traffic. In last couple of years, with simplified front wing and more durable tyres (less susceptible to thermal degradation from wake), Hamilton has shown upteen number of times how to chase and kill, without any issues. So car's setup is not such an issue. Especially on Sakhir where following is so easy from the last corner.
I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:44 pm


And I'm saying, there are set up considerations to consider. They don't set up the Mercedes to drive in traffic - it's setup for the high probability of it driving in clean air at the front, maximizing lap time over high speed on the straights. Factor cooling into that, as well as overall downforce. Bottas got himself into traffic in a DRS train of other cars with similar or better top speeds. It really isn't rocket science.
Those were the days of heavy reliance on front wing when Mercedes used to struggle in traffic. In last couple of years, with simplified front wing and more durable tyres (less susceptible to thermal degradation from wake), Hamilton has shown upteen number of times how to chase and kill, without any issues. So car's setup is not such an issue. Especially on Sakhir where following is so easy from the last corner.
I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
Why should car adjustments be removed? It differentiates between drivers, giving better ones an advantage. They dont heel-toe any more, and don't manually shift the gear lever any more, the adjustments give them something to do. And yes, as a spectator I ENJOY IT.

What needs to be enforced are track limits, by penalizing drivers that go all four off harshly and consistently, but not by stupid gravel traps.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

63l8qrrfy6
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:44 pm


And I'm saying, there are set up considerations to consider. They don't set up the Mercedes to drive in traffic - it's setup for the high probability of it driving in clean air at the front, maximizing lap time over high speed on the straights. Factor cooling into that, as well as overall downforce. Bottas got himself into traffic in a DRS train of other cars with similar or better top speeds. It really isn't rocket science.
Those were the days of heavy reliance on front wing when Mercedes used to struggle in traffic. In last couple of years, with simplified front wing and more durable tyres (less susceptible to thermal degradation from wake), Hamilton has shown upteen number of times how to chase and kill, without any issues. So car's setup is not such an issue. Especially on Sakhir where following is so easy from the last corner.
I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
I fully disagree.
The more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required.
That's why traction control is banned even though it makes no difference to most spectators..

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Mogster
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:17 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
Those were the days of heavy reliance on front wing when Mercedes used to struggle in traffic. In last couple of years, with simplified front wing and more durable tyres (less susceptible to thermal degradation from wake), Hamilton has shown upteen number of times how to chase and kill, without any issues. So car's setup is not such an issue. Especially on Sakhir where following is so easy from the last corner.
I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
I fully disagree.
The more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required.
That's why traction control is banned even though it makes no difference to most spectators..
Exactly.

Let’s not forget that onboard adjustments for stuff like antiroll bars, brake balance, mixture, turbo pressure have existed for many many years.

UlleGulle
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:17 pm

I fully disagree.
The more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required.
That's why traction control is banned even though it makes no difference to most spectators..
Respecfully, I fully disagree with your disagreement. There are many skills I, and in my opinion most F1 fans, value. Natural feel, courage, quick reflexes, and even, in rare cases, tyre saving. The ability to multi-task, however, is not one of those.

Don't forget, in the olden days, the same challenges had to be met by drivers. But because they were drivers, and not switchboard operators, they solved those problems with the big round thing in front of them, and the three pedals beneath them.

This created an uncertainty, with cars coming to and falling from drivers.

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Shrieker
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Do you guys think Romain should be penalized for what he did ? Or was he already penalized ? I say give him a race ban.

On a separate note, I think he's an idiot if he goes to Indycar after this crash.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:17 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
Those were the days of heavy reliance on front wing when Mercedes used to struggle in traffic. In last couple of years, with simplified front wing and more durable tyres (less susceptible to thermal degradation from wake), Hamilton has shown upteen number of times how to chase and kill, without any issues. So car's setup is not such an issue. Especially on Sakhir where following is so easy from the last corner.
I noticed during the race one of the drivers was making 4 different adjustments for a corner.
Well, I say I noticed, I did not, it was the commentary by 2 ex drivers who mentioned it.
This is a possible area that makes no difference to spectators which could be removed, and the car set up for the whole lap. We may then see some cars better on one type of corner and another car or driver on a different corner and they may be able to overtake.

This combined with the trend to modify corners so cars go as fast as possible is removing the cornering component from drivers. Tighter sharper corners that need to be driven round could increase lap and reduce the trafic jams in the race and qualli where there is no space to pick your position for a qualli lap cos the cars come around too soon.
I fully disagree.
The more the driver has to do in the cockpit the higher the skill required.
That's why traction control is banned even though it makes no difference to most spectators..
But is this any 'entertainment' to the watcher? It is a skill no doubt, but is it a driving skill? once established it is 'just' a matter of flicking a thumb to to a preset number every time, and I have little doubt that number was established, if not by, then defiantly with the help of, an engineer looking at data. Yes it is part of racing, but it is [art of what is making overtakes almost impossible. It is almost akin to movable aero in that it altered the characteristics of the car in different parts of the track.

Lots to be said for and against, but I go against as I like to see cars fight with different Pluses and minuses.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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Wouter
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:53 pm
Do you guys think Romain should be penalized for what he did ? Or was he already penalized ? I say give him a race ban.
A penalty? A racing ban? Everyone is happy that he is still alive, because that is a very great miracle and then you start talking about a race ban? <>

zibby43
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Re: 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, Nov 27 - 29

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:24 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:02 am
Max went straight savage on Albon after the race.

Completely unsolicited, too.

Interviewer: “Good thing that Alex takes the podium and score some good points.”

Max: “Well yeah, that’s your conclusion but if you trail your teammate with 30-40 seconds you can hardly say he did a good job. Still nice for Alex to score a podium though.”


Yikes.
I think max is on the record that he wants Hulk in the other car.
Definitely. He praised Hulk for his super-sub moment earlier in the year.

And I wonder if his preference for Hulk is purely a function of just getting along well with Hulk + rating him, or also a manifestation of *not* wanting to be paired with Perez.