2021 Pecking order prediction

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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Bill wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 am
in Abu dhabi Mercedes was testing a new cooling system their pu was not detuned these just staff made up by media.merc has in the past benefited from some exotic rule changes they never solved their tire issues in fact the tires were change to accommodate them and when Rbr and ferrari had a descent pu the front wing was change and they had no competition it took 2 years for Rbr to recover ferrari never did.i just hope the new regulation for the first time affect merc so we can finally have a competitive season
The front wing change affected everyone, not just RBR and Ferrari. Indeed, Merc had possibly the most complicated front wing back then.

And Ferrari's PU was "decent" because they were cheating.

And Vettel stated quite clearly that the tyre change helped Ferrari too.

But other than that, you're spot on. =D>
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

MKlaus
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Bill wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 am
in Abu dhabi Mercedes was testing a new cooling system their pu was not detuned these just staff made up by media.merc has in the past benefited from some exotic rule changes they never solved their tire issues in fact the tires were change to accommodate them and when Rbr and ferrari had a descent pu the front wing was change and they had no competition it took 2 years for Rbr to recover ferrari never did.i just hope the new regulation for the first time affect merc so we can finally have a competitive season
2017 regulations were brought in at the behest of red bull and mclaren, neither of whom did a good job of utilizing it to their benefit.
oil burning clamping and 2020 quali mode clamping were also done at the behest of red bull. neither did that help them to come on par.
when 2019 front wing simplification was brought, even before the season started, marko claimed that they had reclaimed the lost downforce and termed that change was completely useless, whereas mercedes had lost 2.5 seconds of performance as they had enormous dependency on their outwash front wing. it affected everyone, but mercedes did the better job of clawing it back.
if red bull doesn't get it right, then the changes are meant to help mercedes, but if red bull "seems to have got it right", then it's a good change. good logic.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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MKlaus wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:06 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 am
in Abu dhabi Mercedes was testing a new cooling system their pu was not detuned these just staff made up by media.merc has in the past benefited from some exotic rule changes they never solved their tire issues in fact the tires were change to accommodate them and when Rbr and ferrari had a descent pu the front wing was change and they had no competition it took 2 years for Rbr to recover ferrari never did.i just hope the new regulation for the first time affect merc so we can finally have a competitive season
2017 regulations were brought in at the behest of red bull and mclaren, neither of whom did a good job of utilizing it to their benefit.
oil burning clamping and 2020 quali mode clamping were also done at the behest of red bull. neither did that help them to come on par.
when 2019 front wing simplification was brought, even before the season started, marko claimed that they had reclaimed the lost downforce and termed that change was completely useless, whereas mercedes had lost 2.5 seconds of performance as they had enormous dependency on their outwash front wing. it affected everyone, but mercedes did the better job of clawing it back.
if red bull doesn't get it right, then the changes are meant to help mercedes, but if red bull "seems to have got it right", then it's a good change. good logic.
Toto said constantly changing regulations helps Mercedes generally because they have such a good team and mentality of bringing new ideas forwards. People just don't want to accept that they are a fantastic team capable of making great cars no matter what the regulations do or say.

This season may be the first we see them struggle, but I'm not sure it will be for long.
Felipe Baby!

Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Leclerc destroys Sainz
Riccardo destroy weak Norris
Alonso ends Ocon career
Tsunoda humiliate Gasly

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:02 pm
MKlaus wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:06 am
Bill wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 am
in Abu dhabi Mercedes was testing a new cooling system their pu was not detuned these just staff made up by media.merc has in the past benefited from some exotic rule changes they never solved their tire issues in fact the tires were change to accommodate them and when Rbr and ferrari had a descent pu the front wing was change and they had no competition it took 2 years for Rbr to recover ferrari never did.i just hope the new regulation for the first time affect merc so we can finally have a competitive season
2017 regulations were brought in at the behest of red bull and mclaren, neither of whom did a good job of utilizing it to their benefit.
oil burning clamping and 2020 quali mode clamping were also done at the behest of red bull. neither did that help them to come on par.
when 2019 front wing simplification was brought, even before the season started, marko claimed that they had reclaimed the lost downforce and termed that change was completely useless, whereas mercedes had lost 2.5 seconds of performance as they had enormous dependency on their outwash front wing. it affected everyone, but mercedes did the better job of clawing it back.
if red bull doesn't get it right, then the changes are meant to help mercedes, but if red bull "seems to have got it right", then it's a good change. good logic.
Toto said constantly changing regulations helps Mercedes generally because they have such a good team and mentality of bringing new ideas forwards. People just don't want to accept that they are a fantastic team capable of making great cars no matter what the regulations do or say.

This season may be the first we see them struggle, but I'm not sure it will be for long.
They have an all-star team for sure. It happens in American sports too (Tampa Bay Bucks, Golden State Warriors) where you get these pockets of mega-talent that are willing to take a lower salary as long as the excess is used to get more mega-talent.

Merc could split into 2 teams and have both be competitive. That is how deep their talent pool is.

Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Carl Mccoy wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:08 pm
Leclerc destroys Sainz
Riccardo destroy weak Norris
Alonso ends Ocon career
Tsunoda humiliate Gasly
1. Maybe
2. Doubtful
3. Doubtful
4. Very Possible

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proteus
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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senja wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:18 am
proteus wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:09 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:03 pm
All the more exciting to see how the season unfolds to figure it out :P

It's not that hard though, so no need to roll your eyes. :wink:
After all, it's how 2020 panned out too for Russell. =P~

Russell will have to take a seat for Bottas, and score his 2021 points with Mercedes.
As such, his points will come from Mercedes, NOT from Williams.
Schumacher will finish higher up than the rest and garnish some points,
versus no points @ williams. and therefor Haas finishes in front of Williams.

And yes, this is in the end looking into a magic 8-ball.
apart from that feat, the rest imho is very much how things will most likely turn out.

I'd be extremely, exteremly suprised to see it turn out differently over the whole season.
I cant imagine how will Scumacher manage to get points at all since Haas invested almost nothing in their car, while Williams was ahead allreday in the second half of the season. Everyone upgraded their cars with tokens, while only boost for Haas will be the Ferrari engine.

I expect an absolut fiasco for them, mainly fighting inside the team, with Latifi in reach on his bad day.
Only Ferrari engine will be much bigger gain than anything Williams came up with. Their biggest downside last year was Ferrari engine, and only thing that Williams could be there around them.

And they will not be underdeveloped. They already tested two versions of floor, and two versions of front wing. And cape under the nose. And they will bring new engine cover and front wing for first race. They will bring more changes to the 1st race than Williams. And in season neither of them will bring much of development.
We shall see it soon enough.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Ringleheim
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Carl Mccoy wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:08 pm
Leclerc destroys Sainz
Riccardo destroy weak Norris
Alonso ends Ocon career
Tsunoda humiliate Gasly
I think Sainz will fair better than being "destroyed".
He's faster/better than Vettel at this point in their respective careers.

Don't think Alonso will "end" Ocon.

Ricciardo will get the better of Norris, yes, but "destroys"???

Tsunoda vs. Gasly: who cares? LOL

cheeRS
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Bill wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:40 am
in Abu dhabi Mercedes was testing a new cooling system their pu was not detuned these just staff made up by media.merc has in the past benefited from some exotic rule changes they never solved their tire issues in fact the tires were change to accommodate them and when Rbr and ferrari had a descent pu the front wing was change and they had no competition it took 2 years for Rbr to recover ferrari never did.i just hope the new regulation for the first time affect merc so we can finally have a competitive season
Literally everything you just typed was clearly misinformed or perhaps you're just trolling, I honestly don't know.

Merc is arguably the best structured, organized, and funded team of the hybrid era. When "exotic"(?) rule changes happen, everyone has the same opportunity to adjust. So when the best run team in F1 adjusts best to the rule changes, people say, "Oh, look at Merc, F1 changed the rules to keep benefiting them! That's not fair!"

Ferrari fell behind because they had a cheating engine and were penalized when they had to play by the rules. RBR doesn't have the same synergy (well, they might now that they can develop the Honda IP) that Merc (and Ferrari/Alpine) have by developing a PU and chassis side by side. RBR has arguably the best engineer/aerodynamicist of all time in Mr. Newey.

Look at the stability in Merc. They've only had ONE driver change since 2013 and that was due to a retirement. RBR has a second-seat revolving door. That says something about the inner workings of a team. My point is, and what is relevant to this thread is that Merc simply does the best with their organization, plain and simple. From front desk receptionist to world championship driver. And that's why I certainly will not be surprised to see Merc getting the race win on Sunday.

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Tizz
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Imagine... Hammi decides to do just one more year just because it should take him past Schumacher and then he retires. And that final year, the dessert if you will, you get beaten by Max. It would just be a horrible anti-climax as an end to your career..

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Tizz wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:50 am
Imagine... Hammi decides to do just one more year just because it should take him past Schumacher and then he retires. And that final year, the dessert if you will, you get beaten by Max. It would just be a horrible anti-climax as an end to your career..
Assuming he managed to get to 100 wins and 100 poles, I'm not sure it would be an anti-climax although no doubt he would be a bit annoyed for a day or two. Very few drivers get to leave on a high as reigning world champion. Hawthorn died shortly after the season he became champion, Rindt died during the season he became champion, Mansell left F1 after falling out with Williams, Prost did go out on a high and N Rosberg left in less than champion style by resigning a few days after winning the title. So really only Prost managed to do it well. I think every other champion carried on for at least another season and didn't win the title in the following attempts.

If Hamilton is beaten to the title by Max this year, and then retires, is that any more anti-climatic than Michael being effectively sacked by Ferrari?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Tizz
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:12 am
Assuming he managed to get to 100 wins and 100 poles, I'm not sure it would be an anti-climax although no doubt he would be a bit annoyed for a day or two. Very few drivers get to leave on a high as reigning world champion. Hawthorn died shortly after the season he became champion, Rindt died during the season he became champion, Mansell left F1 after falling out with Williams, Prost did go out on a high and N Rosberg left in less than champion style by resigning a few days after winning the title. So really only Prost managed to do it well. I think every other champion carried on for at least another season and didn't win the title in the following attempts.

If Hamilton is beaten to the title by Max this year, and then retires, is that any more anti-climatic than Michael being effectively sacked by Ferrari?
It wouldn't take anything away from his achievements and I don't remember mentioning Michael but if it were to happen to me, I would slam a few doors on my way home. And a little while longer actually.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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I think if they don't get the title this season, then it's much more likely he stays on for 2022 in pursuit of number 8. He probably will want to break the 100 barrier for poles and wins as well before retiring. Like any driver he won't admit it outwardly, but those stats will mean something to him, and I think he will ideally want more clear daylight between himself and Schumacher.

But if he were to retire tomorrow or the end of this season with the numbers he has now, I'd imagine he will be more than content.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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Merc
RB
AM*
McLaren*
Ferrari*
AT*
Renault (Alpine..)*
Alfa
Williams
Haas
* just based on my gut feeling don't @ me
Last edited by MtthsMlw on Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2021 Pecking order prediction

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:40 am
Merc
RB
AM*
McLaren*
Ferrari*
AT*
Renault*
Alfa
Williams
Haas
* just based on my gut feeling don't @ me
Pretty much this, but I see the asterisked teams being pretty mixed up. i.e. I can see variations between cars within teams as the midfield - from Aston to Alpine - looks so tight e.g. Vettel could be 5th with Stroll 15th or vice versa - that's to say I don't see the grid being 2-by-2 all the way down. Likewise with Red Bull closer to Merc I could see Perez and Verstappen being ahead of Bottas for large periods of the season, especially in races.
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