2021 Portuguese Grand Prix - Portimão, Apr 30 - May 02

[amr]

The drivers close the DRS by themselves in order to brake for the next corner, so if you remove that manual element of using the DRS by disabling it automatically earlier on the straight, there will be less driver skill involved to get that last meter of braking in qualifying or make that last lunge to pass in the race. Just best to leave it as it is ending into the corner.

Yes, the drivers close it now, but they do it well after they have carried out the overtake. No skill involved there. More skill involved in automatically closing it 300m before the corner and making the overtaking driver make the overtake work. That's where the skill lies.

So best not to leave it as it is. Best to change it and make the driver carry out the overtake once DRS has allowed him to get close. In effect DRS would remove the problem caused by the cars not being able to follow each other. DRS would put the driver in the tow but not give him a free pass. Then we'd get to see drivers fighting under braking. Not like now where the overtaking driver is 20m ahead by the time they hit the brake pedal.

Something like this would be quite feasible actually and not a bad idea. Nowadays there's anywhere from 21-29 mini-sector time loops installed on tracks. These mini-sectors can easily detect when one car is lets say 2 tenths behind another one and could close DRS automatically. 2 tenths distance is more than enough to put a car in contention for an overtake when you have inherent overspeed from drs anyway and slipstream alone is very powerful from that close.

For example in Imola:
https://i.imgur.com/SOaTX84.jpg
Lets say DRS shuts off automatically at marked location if a car is timed at less than 0.2s behind a car in front. Rest is up to the driver.

Why not have the DRS close automatically when the pursuing driver gets the overtake done as seen by the driver tracker. That will quickly more or less equalize speed and the drivers will have to battle it out in the next braking zone. In a DRS train, it might be even bringing a third pursuing driver in position to do an overtake.

You could then get rid of the DRS zone and let them have it when they want it as long as there is no braking and they are at least 1sec behind. If there is a DRS train and the last driver gets the overtake done, get his DRS away until the next braking point so that he does not get DRS for that strait on the leading DRS train car. So no easy double overtake.

[politburo]

Some interesting documents pertaining to this weekend's events. per FIA website:

Race Director's Event Notes:

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... tes%20.pdf

PU elements used so far per driver

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... %20now.pdf

[El Scorchio]

Some interesting documents pertaining to this weekend's events. per FIA website:

Race Director's Event Notes:

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... tes%20.pdf

PU elements used so far per driver

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... %20now.pdf

So Bottas has got lucky with his engine not being damaged then. Not looking particularly rosy in terms of PU part usage for Honda powered cars at the moment- especially in the AT team.

[godlameroso]

AT isn't fighting for the championship, and this gives them a good chance to fast track reliability developments.

Only Ferrari is in a position to do the same with Haas.

[Just_a_fan]

The drivers close the DRS by themselves in order to brake for the next corner, so if you remove that manual element of using the DRS by disabling it automatically earlier on the straight, there will be less driver skill involved to get that last meter of braking in qualifying or make that last lunge to pass in the race. Just best to leave it as it is ending into the corner.

Yes, the drivers close it now, but they do it well after they have carried out the overtake. No skill involved there. More skill involved in automatically closing it 300m before the corner and making the overtaking driver make the overtake work. That's where the skill lies.

So best not to leave it as it is. Best to change it and make the driver carry out the overtake once DRS has allowed him to get close. In effect DRS would remove the problem caused by the cars not being able to follow each other. DRS would put the driver in the tow but not give him a free pass. Then we'd get to see drivers fighting under braking. Not like now where the overtaking driver is 20m ahead by the time they hit the brake pedal.

Something like this would be quite feasible actually and not a bad idea. Nowadays there's anywhere from 21-29 mini-sector time loops installed on tracks. These mini-sectors can easily detect when one car is lets say 2 tenths behind another one and could close DRS automatically. 2 tenths distance is more than enough to put a car in contention for an overtake when you have inherent overspeed from drs anyway and slipstream alone is very powerful from that close.

For example in Imola:
https://i.imgur.com/SOaTX84.jpg
Lets say DRS shuts off automatically at marked location if a car is timed at less than 0.2s behind a car in front. Rest is up to the driver.

Finally someone who gets what I mean. And automatic end of DRS means the driver just has to do the actual overtake "old school" rather than blasting past with a 30km/h overspeed. Wouldn't work on all tracks, of course, but it's definitely something that would work on the longer straights.

[PlatinumZealot]

Doesn't achieve more than the current method of extending/ retracting the activation point.

Messing with the deactivation zone instead involves much more "moving parts" in order to achieve the same task of reducing the DRS zone.

Logically its more things to go wrong for the some objective. Its basically two braking zones. Which is dangerous (not shifting of line in a braking zone is allowed).

Interesting idea, but functionally less efficient and more dangerous.

[Juzh]

Doesn't achieve more than the current method of extending/ retracting the activation point.
Messing with the deactivation zone instead involves much more "moving parts" in order to achieve the same task of reducing the DRS zone.

And you know this how? It changes the whole dynamic. By tweaking when DRS is open and shut you could have cars catch up and then not simply shooting past. Say we extend the DRS zone, but also extend DRS shut-off point to 3 tenths, or 4 tenths.. who knows, it's a trial and error process. It's also easy to implement into current infrastructure, just by few software tweaks.

Logically its more things to go wrong for the some objective. Its basically two braking zones. Which is dangerous (not shifting of line in a braking zone is allowed).

Interesting idea, but functionally less efficient and more dangerous.

What double braking? you're overblowing this out of proportions. Closing speed will be somewhat reduced in this case, Instead of 30 kmh overspeed (something that is happening now) it'll be only 20-25 kmh overspeed. This gives a defending car a slightly higher chance to force an issue into braking zone for attacking driver, instead of him just sailing past. It's not like a car will suddenly drop 30 kmh of speed just by closing DRS. It's not more dangerous in the slightest, if anything less overspeed is safer.

Cars are already dropping up to 20 kmh at the end of some straights when ERS is switched from deploy to harvest mode and this has been happening since 2014. You'll call this a braking event as well? It's a complete non-issue.

[Xwang]

Yes, the drivers close it now, but they do it well after they have carried out the overtake. No skill involved there. More skill involved in automatically closing it 300m before the corner and making the overtaking driver make the overtake work. That's where the skill lies.

So best not to leave it as it is. Best to change it and make the driver carry out the overtake once DRS has allowed him to get close. In effect DRS would remove the problem caused by the cars not being able to follow each other. DRS would put the driver in the tow but not give him a free pass. Then we'd get to see drivers fighting under braking. Not like now where the overtaking driver is 20m ahead by the time they hit the brake pedal.

Something like this would be quite feasible actually and not a bad idea. Nowadays there's anywhere from 21-29 mini-sector time loops installed on tracks. These mini-sectors can easily detect when one car is lets say 2 tenths behind another one and could close DRS automatically. 2 tenths distance is more than enough to put a car in contention for an overtake when you have inherent overspeed from drs anyway and slipstream alone is very powerful from that close.

For example in Imola:
https://i.imgur.com/SOaTX84.jpg
Lets say DRS shuts off automatically at marked location if a car is timed at less than 0.2s behind a car in front. Rest is up to the driver.

Why not have the DRS close automatically when the pursuing driver gets the overtake done as seen by the driver tracker. That will quickly more or less equalize speed and the drivers will have to battle it out in the next braking zone. In a DRS train, it might be even bringing a third pursuing driver in position to do an overtake.

You could then get rid of the DRS zone and let them have it when they want it as long as there is no braking and they are at least 1sec behind. If there is a DRS train and the last driver gets the overtake done, get his DRS away until the next braking point so that he does not get DRS for that strait on the leading DRS train car. So no easy double overtake.

I agree

[Unf]

DRS should be permitted everywhere and anytime driver want to use it, but usages should be limited - 5 times per race for instance.

[Juzh]

Yes, the drivers close it now, but they do it well after they have carried out the overtake. No skill involved there. More skill involved in automatically closing it 300m before the corner and making the overtaking driver make the overtake work. That's where the skill lies.

So best not to leave it as it is. Best to change it and make the driver carry out the overtake once DRS has allowed him to get close. In effect DRS would remove the problem caused by the cars not being able to follow each other. DRS would put the driver in the tow but not give him a free pass. Then we'd get to see drivers fighting under braking. Not like now where the overtaking driver is 20m ahead by the time they hit the brake pedal.

Something like this would be quite feasible actually and not a bad idea. Nowadays there's anywhere from 21-29 mini-sector time loops installed on tracks. These mini-sectors can easily detect when one car is lets say 2 tenths behind another one and could close DRS automatically. 2 tenths distance is more than enough to put a car in contention for an overtake when you have inherent overspeed from drs anyway and slipstream alone is very powerful from that close.

For example in Imola:
https://i.imgur.com/SOaTX84.jpg
Lets say DRS shuts off automatically at marked location if a car is timed at less than 0.2s behind a car in front. Rest is up to the driver.

Why not have the DRS close automatically when the pursuing driver gets the overtake done as seen by the driver tracker. That will quickly more or less equalize speed and the drivers will have to battle it out in the next braking zone.

No it won't. At that point it's way too late and momentum wouldn't swing much. In 95% of overtakes this would mean disengaging drs for like 1 or 2 seconds before braking zone, which is insignificant.

[amr]

Something like this would be quite feasible actually and not a bad idea. Nowadays there's anywhere from 21-29 mini-sector time loops installed on tracks. These mini-sectors can easily detect when one car is lets say 2 tenths behind another one and could close DRS automatically. 2 tenths distance is more than enough to put a car in contention for an overtake when you have inherent overspeed from drs anyway and slipstream alone is very powerful from that close.

For example in Imola:
https://i.imgur.com/SOaTX84.jpg
Lets say DRS shuts off automatically at marked location if a car is timed at less than 0.2s behind a car in front. Rest is up to the driver.

Why not have the DRS close automatically when the pursuing driver gets the overtake done as seen by the driver tracker. That will quickly more or less equalize speed and the drivers will have to battle it out in the next braking zone.

No it won't. At that point it's way too late and momentum wouldn't swing much. In 95% of overtakes this would mean disengaging drs for like 1 or 2 seconds before braking zone, which is insignificant.

At ~300kph 2 seconds is about 160m, that is considerable for a DRS zone. I think that if the overtake losses DRS, even though he might still have a slightly bigger top speed (+5 - 10 kph) it won't be so easy to fly by and retake the racing line as it is with current rules. The defending driver would have better chances considering he has the racing line and this will promote wheel to wheel racing.

[Juzh]

Why not have the DRS close automatically when the pursuing driver gets the overtake done as seen by the driver tracker. That will quickly more or less equalize speed and the drivers will have to battle it out in the next braking zone.

No it won't. At that point it's way too late and momentum wouldn't swing much. In 95% of overtakes this would mean disengaging drs for like 1 or 2 seconds before braking zone, which is insignificant.

At ~300kph 2 seconds is about 160m, that is considerable for a DRS zone. I think that if the overtake losses DRS, even though he might still have a slightly bigger top speed (+5 - 10 kph) it won't be so easy to fly by and retake the racing line as it is with current rules. The defending driver would have better chances considering he has the racing line and this will promote wheel to wheel racing.

I know what you mean, but personally I believe this would be too late, as I already said. Overtaking car is already ahead in this scenario, on top of that he has a lot more speed to boot. Unless overtake is done mid-straight there's no way defending car can regain position. Nowadays cars have so much drag attacking car can easily have 30 kmh advantage. You'd need a very long straight before that advantage bleeds off.

[PlatinumZealot]

Doesn't achieve more than the current method of extending/ retracting the activation point.
Messing with the deactivation zone instead involves much more "moving parts" in order to achieve the same task of reducing the DRS zone.

And you know this how? It changes the whole dynamic. By tweaking when DRS is open and shut you could have cars catch up and then not simply shooting past. Say we extend the DRS zone, but also extend DRS shut-off point to 3 tenths, or 4 tenths.. who knows, it's a trial and error process. It's also easy to implement into current infrastructure, just by few software tweaks.

Logically its more things to go wrong for the some objective. Its basically two braking zones. Which is dangerous (not shifting of line in a braking zone is allowed).

Interesting idea, but functionally less efficient and more dangerous.

What double braking? you're overblowing this out of proportions. Closing speed will be somewhat reduced in this case, Instead of 30 kmh overspeed (something that is happening now) it'll be only 20-25 kmh overspeed. This gives a defending car a slightly higher chance to force an issue into braking zone for attacking driver, instead of him just sailing past. It's not like a car will suddenly drop 30 kmh of speed just by closing DRS. It's not more dangerous in the slightest, if anything less overspeed is safer.

Cars are already dropping up to 20 kmh at the end of some straights when ERS is switched from deploy to harvest mode and this has been happening since 2014. You'll call this a braking event as well? It's a complete non-issue.

Your objective is that you want to achieve DRS passes that are not too easy. This is done currently by shprtening of the DRS zone by moving the activation point, right.

I don't understand what you think is wrong with doing it this way.

Can you explain why you think the curent method is not sucessful?

[V12-POWER]

DRS should be allowed anywhere in the track and the driver who gets overtaken shouldn’t wait till certain point for detection, it should be immediately allowed for the now chasing opponent

also it should be manually operated by a lever with a spring or something similar so it’s only active while the driver is pushing/pulling it, more one handed action like the f duct era

[Laserguru]

Some interesting documents pertaining to this weekend's events. per FIA website:

Race Director's Event Notes:

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... tes%20.pdf

PU elements used so far per driver

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... %20now.pdf

Mind the “have used” and “so far”. We will learn during the weekend if they need to replace it. Any replacement part has not been not used yet.