2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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DChemTech
DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:48 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:41 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm
You cant just move the goal posts mid season to slow down a championship contender team.
They can. And they did last season with banning party mode.
On this one, I agree with team mercedes :lol:
Although I personally feel they should not be changing the rules mid-season especially with budget cap, it's been done many times before(party mod included).
Yes, and whereas the (intend of) the party-ban was to enhance competition, the current decision may leave the title-fight dead in the water, if the predictions of MB/AM on the impact are somewhat near the truth - so aside from the budget consideration, this consideration makes it even less desirable...
(But whether it is desirable of course does not whether or not they can and (IMO) they should. In both cases, FIA can, in both cases, I regard they should not. There is no difference between the cases there)

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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DChemTech wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:54 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:48 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:41 pm


They can. And they did last season with banning party mode.
On this one, I agree with team mercedes :lol:
Although I personally feel they should not be changing the rules mid-season especially with budget cap, it's been done many times before(party mod included).
Yes, and whereas the (intend of) the party-ban was to enhance competition, the current decision may leave the title-fight dead in the water, if the predictions of MB/AM on the impact are somewhat near the truth - so aside from the budget consideration, this consideration makes it even less desirable...
(But whether it is desirable of course does not whether or not they can and (IMO) they should. In both cases, FIA can, in both cases, I regard they should not. There is no difference between the cases there)
Yes!
I believe impact will be much smaller than Mercedes guys claimed. Maybe half or third of claimed numbers.
To me, it's interesting why Mercedes decided to act now. AFAIK it's not something new.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:33 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:54 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:48 pm

On this one, I agree with team mercedes :lol:
Although I personally feel they should not be changing the rules mid-season especially with budget cap, it's been done many times before(party mod included).
Yes, and whereas the (intend of) the party-ban was to enhance competition, the current decision may leave the title-fight dead in the water, if the predictions of MB/AM on the impact are somewhat near the truth - so aside from the budget consideration, this consideration makes it even less desirable...
(But whether it is desirable of course does not whether or not they can and (IMO) they should. In both cases, FIA can, in both cases, I regard they should not. There is no difference between the cases there)
Yes!
I believe impact will be much smaller than Mercedes guys claimed. Maybe half or third of claimed numbers.
To me, it's interesting why Mercedes decided to act now. AFAIK it's not something new.
It's a monster read now, but that's all over in the rear wing thread. And I'm sure the mods may remind us in a sec that this conversation should probably be happening on there instead!

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:41 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm
You cant just move the goal posts mid season to slow down a championship contender team.
They can. And they did last season with banning party mode.
Yeah, I agree but taking a ricdiculous precedent from the past doesnt make this new rediculous decision any less rediculous.

The change of tire coumpounds mid season a couple of years ago was just as much BS.

FIA has been making bad decisions for decades, but that shouldnt justify continuing like that.

Rules must be stable for the entire season and mustnt be changed mid season is my opinion on that.

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:41 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm
You cant just move the goal posts mid season to slow down a championship contender team.
They can. And they did last season with banning party mode.

Yeah, I agree but taking a ricdiculous precedent from the past doesnt make this new rediculous decision any less rediculous.

The change of tire coumpounds mid season a couple of years ago was just as much BS.

FIA has been making bad decisions for decades, but that shouldnt justify continuing like that.

Rules must be stable for the entire season and mustnt be changed mid season is my opinion on that.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Stable rules during the season? In Formula 1? Ha! That's a nice chuckle.
.. ... ... ... ...

DChemTech
DChemTech
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Location: Delft, NL

Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 pm
Stable rules during the season? In Formula 1? Ha! That's a nice chuckle.
If one stops dreaming about changing the world, it will never change ;)
Even though a stable, objective FIA rulebook may be a more outrageous desire than 100% rigid materials.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:59 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:41 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:36 pm
You cant just move the goal posts mid season to slow down a championship contender team.
They can. And they did last season with banning party mode.

Yeah, I agree but taking a ricdiculous precedent from the past doesnt make this new rediculous decision any less rediculous.

The change of tire coumpounds mid season a couple of years ago was just as much BS.

FIA has been making bad decisions for decades, but that shouldnt justify continuing like that.

Rules must be stable for the entire season and mustnt be changed mid season is my opinion on that.
Yup- agree with that! This is on the FIA more than anyone else. They should have dealt with this rear wing thing in the offseason rather than not bothering to until Mercedes had to force their hand.

Especially as it's a legality issue, (whatever side of that argument you fall on) rather than a whim like party mode. I get the tyres thing as it was a safety issue, or at least dressed up as one.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 pm
Stable rules during the season? In Formula 1? Ha! That's a nice chuckle.
Like with the oil burn. Took them years and years to do something. Always in small steps and never within a year, only in between years.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-gF4MxyJg
The story about how Mercedes made Hamilton's undercut work after all

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Sieper wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 pm
Stable rules during the season? In Formula 1? Ha! That's a nice chuckle.
Like with the oil burn. Took them years and years to do something. Always in small steps and never within a year, only in between years.
Oil burning/ consumption was reduced from 0.9l to 0.6l in the middle of a season


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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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And all the other steps were in between seasons. I want to understand why some things are treated so differently. There were engine suppliers strictly burning fuel at the same time, so why not 3 races and comply. It was technically possible. And if really impossible. 1 year. But it was allowed for 5/6 times as long.

I don’t get why these kind of policing differences are accepted.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:33 pm
And all the other steps were in between seasons. I want to understand why some things are treated so differently. There were engine suppliers strictly burning fuel at the same time, so why not 3 races and comply. It was technically possible. And if really impossible. 1 year. But it was allowed for 5/6 times as long.

I don’t get why these kind of policing differences are accepted.
If I had to guess, I'd say because you could indirectly penalize a team that did nothing wrong. By that I mean customer teams have no say in how the PU is designed.
173 101 99 7

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

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Sieper wrote:And all the other steps were in between seasons. I want to understand why some things are treated so differently. There were engine suppliers strictly burning fuel at the same time, so why not 3 races and comply. It was technically possible. And if really impossible. 1 year. But it was allowed for 5/6 times as long.

I don’t get why these kind of policing differences are accepted.
You bring a valid point, at the same time I think that it had to do with the fact that those type of changes may not have been easy to implement once they PU’s were designed and homologated, the PU’s are also probably in production way in advance (parts and components) and with a limited number of PU’s allowed through the season, requesting changes in season may have been non-feasible... Those changes weren’t for example like the “one-mode” change introduced in season, where no redesign of the PU’s was required... Or the current case with the wings where you are not limited in the amount of iterations you can bring on a season and that most probably require a lesser degree of redesign to comply


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sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 20 - 23

Post

SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:40 pm
Sieper wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:33 pm
Stable rules during the season? In Formula 1? Ha! That's a nice chuckle.
Like with the oil burn. Took them years and years to do something. Always in small steps and never within a year, only in between years.
Oil burning/ consumption was reduced from 0.9l to 0.6l in the middle of a season


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
AFAIK it was 1.2 -> 0.9 mid-season, ->0.6 after the season (although it doesn't matter)