2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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ringo wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 02:47
How can you have a pace margin? That makes no sense. But I guess we have to agree to disagree.


German is my second language, and Toto is an entertaining English speaker. While it's not 100% gramtically correct what he says, because I speak and have an appreciation of 'Denglish' (German English mixture), if he was using Spielraum as 'Margin' then it does make sense IMO this is also used in context as 'Leeway'.

(tldr; Pace Spielraum makes sense to me in Denglish)

TimW
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Also in English it makes perfect sense to have a margin in speed over your competitor. You can even have a speed advantage by a significant margin....

To be honest, Mercedes had the advantage on high fuel load, but on low fuel it may well have been reversed. Both RB drivers were complaining on balance in the beginning and said it improved a lot later on. We will never know because both RB's had a significant tire advantage towards the end.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Bill wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 09:32
all talk about flexy wing they are no flexy wings someone has made a better pu than merc.Rbr were allegedly supposed to lose anyway from 0.3 tenths to .06 tenth it didn't happen in facts Honda found more power with better reliability and new oil
To be fair, RBR had brand new engines in this race, and are also able to run with less drag without giving anything away in twisty parts of the track due to better downforce than MB with these 2021 regs.

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Redragon
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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koenigzig wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 06:41
Agreed, also Sainz is underrated. A very good race driver imo. Hopefully they both learn from each other and improve in respective areas of weaknesses
Yes he is really underrated, he grow up under his father influence. Driving in different conditions making him really adaptable to any car and responding well to it.

maxxer
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Redragon wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 12:51
koenigzig wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 06:41
Agreed, also Sainz is underrated. A very good race driver imo. Hopefully they both learn from each other and improve in respective areas of weaknesses
Yes he is really underrated, he grow up under his father influence. Driving in different conditions making him really adaptable to any car and responding well to it.
Dont know why is underrated i always found him a good driver very stable and i think good feedback to develop a car
Like Alonso and Schumacher if this team would keep him long term he can help develop the car

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djos
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Agreed, Sainz is quality and it’s good to see him having a decent race when the car is there for him.

I’m also super pleased to see Daniel returning to his Honey Badger ways!
"In downforce we trust"

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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ringo wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 06:37
zeph wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 05:31
On a different note, now that Sainz is finding his footing, Leclerc is beginning to look rather normal...
Yes his weakness, even when he had vettel as teammate, was race pace. People need to remember that he is fairly inexperienced and hasnt really had the opportunity to learn from an experienced driver willing to share. He went from Sauber to Ferrari in no time and disnt learn much from Vettel who he beat. So i think he has more to learn from Sainz now ironically. He definitely is fast over a lap though.
I don’t know anything about leclerc’s pace. I have almost never seen him in a longer stint with comparable tires and car performance to his competitors. I do know he is very quick in qualy but also still slightly wild, accepting a tad more risk to get there. Imho.

Sainz is a bit like that sometimes as well, especially in wheel to wheel I feel he barged through some people. But yes, he is very good as well.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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maxxer wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 13:20
Redragon wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 12:51
koenigzig wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 06:41
Agreed, also Sainz is underrated. A very good race driver imo. Hopefully they both learn from each other and improve in respective areas of weaknesses
Yes he is really underrated, he grow up under his father influence. Driving in different conditions making him really adaptable to any car and responding well to it.
Dont know why is underrated i always found him a good driver very stable and i think good feedback to develop a car
Like Alonso and Schumacher if this team would keep him long term he can help develop the car
I don't know if he's underrated so much as under the radar. Was treated a bit poorly by RBR as a casualty of their historical habit of prioritising driver A over driver B, IMO and has had to quietly go about his business in the background to an extent thereafter.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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We have a great collection of drivers in F1 right now. And the younger generation has some Super Stars, 100%.

basti313
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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TimW wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 12:00
Also in English it makes perfect sense to have a margin in speed over your competitor. You can even have a speed advantage by a significant margin....

To be honest, Mercedes had the advantage on high fuel load, but on low fuel it may well have been reversed. Both RB drivers were complaining on balance in the beginning and said it improved a lot later on. We will never know because both RB's had a significant tire advantage towards the end.
Yes, the race was lost on strategy, not because of the car.

Ves was actually loosing ground on Ham starting lap 13 about 2-3tenth per lap on average. Without the lockup of Bottas, the gap would have increased until maybe lap 25 to easily 6-7sec without any chance for an undercut.
Hamilton was able to follow over 12 laps within half a second to Ves...that is brutal to the tires.
Without the error at the pitstop or even better with a lap earlier (giving Bot an undercut), Ham and Bot would just have disappeared into the sunset.
Don`t russel the hamster!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Zynerji wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 13:51
We have a great collection of drivers in F1 right now. And the younger generation has some Super Stars, 100%.
Agreed. A rich time with three multiple world champions and a world champion batting for the old guard, and half a dozen young guns that make the future look bright. One of those young guns is looking very strongly set to join the title holders, and there are two or three other young guns that could also join the title holder group given the right car. Next year's big rule change could bring any of them in to contention if someone does a good job / bad job with the new cars.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Just_a_fan wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 14:32
Zynerji wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 13:51
We have a great collection of drivers in F1 right now. And the younger generation has some Super Stars, 100%.
Agreed. A rich time with three multiple world champions and a world champion batting for the old guard, and half a dozen young guns that make the future look bright. One of those young guns is looking very strongly set to join the title holders, and there are two or three other young guns that could also join the title holder group given the right car. Next year's big rule change could bring any of them in to contention if someone does a good job / bad job with the new cars.
We are going to move into either enlightenment or entitlement in the new cars.

I hope it isn't entitlement, like it is now. I hope Q3 in 2022 is covered by .2s, 1-10th...

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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So many people under estimating the influence on the race of RBR having both cars in the fight.
Mer did not have the free hand in strategy that they have been getting and were found wanting
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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RZS10 wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 22:41
It doesn't matter if he gained an advantage or lost out ... the race director's notes clearly stated that anyone not making the corner would have to go through the bollards, he did not, and it wasn't even that he got pushed out whilst fighting for position, he just did not make the corner - so he should have made that little detour which surely would have cost him further positions (many, probably), he did not do so and only lost one place which kept him in contention for the win.

He did not even bother with pretending to go for the bollards in order to claim that he wouldn't have made it at that angle and speed, just got back on track the fastest way possible.

So Masi's own notes aren't even worth as much as the paper they're (not) printed on ... would the penalty of going through the bollards fit the crime of making a mistake? Probably not, but of course he got away with it.

Obviously Bottas should have gone the long way when he missed corner 4 which would have cost him the position to Checo, but at least Masi was consistent in ignoring his very own rules there.
Masi about Max: "The situation was looked at, as well as the place where he shot off the track.
Physically it was impossible to follow the prescribed route. That route is based on what has in the past been the most common place where drivers have gone off track in Turn 1. The moment was reviewed and it was judged that he clearly went off the gas, lost a position and returned to the track safely. As a result, no further action was required."

Masi about Bottas: "That moment was looked at immediately. Considering where Valtteri went off track, he chose the safest option. He lost a significant amount of time and returned to the track in a safe manner. Therefore, no action was taken. It was however noted as one of his three cautions before he would be shown a black and white flag. In the rest of the race, he didn't make any more mistakes."
The Power of Dreams!

Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Zynerji wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 14:46
Just_a_fan wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 14:32
Zynerji wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 13:51
We have a great collection of drivers in F1 right now. And the younger generation has some Super Stars, 100%.
Agreed. A rich time with three multiple world champions and a world champion batting for the old guard, and half a dozen young guns that make the future look bright. One of those young guns is looking very strongly set to join the title holders, and there are two or three other young guns that could also join the title holder group given the right car. Next year's big rule change could bring any of them in to contention if someone does a good job / bad job with the new cars.
We are going to move into either enlightenment or entitlement in the new cars.

I hope it isn't entitlement, like it is now. I hope Q3 in 2022 is covered by .2s, 1-10th...
Agreed. Close car performance would be excellent.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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