2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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cooken
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
The FIA berated him for it right? And he will be penalized next time

koenigzig
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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DChemTech wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:09 pm
cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
The FIA berated him for it right? And he will be penalized next time
The FIA did take notice and rightfully warned the team to not repeat this, was a bit careless and dangerous of Max to do that. However, can't say it was up there with the Bottas incident in pits. Max never lost control while Bottas did around at least 10 people.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:51 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:48 pm


I think (in hindsight the race was won at the start already, when Lewis had a little wobble from being directly behind Max in turn 1 (again, no criticism, just logical he was there) as a result he could not get into the slipstream up the hill and Max was gone.
I'm not sure it mattered much TBH. He may have managed to stay within DRS for a lap or two, but that's all that would have been different.
I agree, but since that did not happen, and in hindsight, that is already where the gap got created that proved to be insurmountable.
That gap would have opened extremely quickly regardless. One 'wobble' was in no way any sort of factor.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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koenigzig wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:23 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:09 pm
cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
The FIA berated him for it right? And he will be penalized next time
The FIA did take notice and rightfully warned the team to not repeat this, was a bit careless and dangerous of Max to do that. However, can't say it was up there with the Bottas incident in pits. Max never lost control while Bottas did around at least 10 people.
I think you can probably just let him off with a warning this time for being lost in the moment, but it was really stupid to just stop on the track while a race is still going on. I wouldn't be 100% surprised if they revisit it and plop a point or two on his licence, but just a shake of the finger and a 'tut tut young man' is fine.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:50 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:51 pm


I'm not sure it mattered much TBH. He may have managed to stay within DRS for a lap or two, but that's all that would have been different.
I agree, but since that did not happen, and in hindsight, that is already where the gap got created that proved to be insurmountable.
That gap would have opened extremely quickly regardless. One 'wobble' was in no way any sort of factor.
I see. So just describing what actually happened is already unacceptable. That is where the gap opened. Just a fact and from that moment on it opened further. Yes. And that is how the cards lay indeed.

I was hoping for that, first time Max could really open a gap in the first stint. So far (on permanent race tracks) Lewis was always in undercut range, usually even almost in Max’ gearbox at the time he had to visit the pits (Spain, Imola). Or undercut made (Bahrein).
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:17 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:50 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm


I agree, but since that did not happen, and in hindsight, that is already where the gap got created that proved to be insurmountable.
That gap would have opened extremely quickly regardless. One 'wobble' was in no way any sort of factor.
I see. So just describing what actually happened is already unacceptable. That is where the gap opened. Just a fact and from that moment on it opened further. Yes. And that is how the cards lay indeed.

I was hoping for that, first time Max could really open a gap in the first stint. So far (on permanent race tracks) Lewis was always in undercut range, usually even almost in Max’ gearbox at the time he had to visit the pits (Spain, Imola). Or undercut made (Bahrein).
Who said anything about unacceptable? I just disagree it was any sort of defining factor whatsoever in how the race turned out. The pace differential was quite clear for the whole race.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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I am just saying that is where the gap already appeared. Not that it is a race defining moment. Max had the pace all race long. Like you said. Why are we even discussing this?
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:43 pm
I am just saying that is where the gap already appeared. Not that it is a race defining moment. Max had the pace all race long. Like you said. Why are we even discussing this?
Good question. It was you who brought it up rather than I, though.

koenigzig
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:56 pm
koenigzig wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:23 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:09 pm


The FIA berated him for it right? And he will be penalized next time
The FIA did take notice and rightfully warned the team to not repeat this, was a bit careless and dangerous of Max to do that. However, can't say it was up there with the Bottas incident in pits. Max never lost control while Bottas did around at least 10 people.
I think you can probably just let him off with a warning this time for being lost in the moment, but it was really stupid to just stop on the track while a race is still going on. I wouldn't be 100% surprised if they revisit it and plop a point or two on his licence, but just a shake of the finger and a 'tut tut young man' is fine.
Agree, it was a dangerous stunt given Latifi was right there.
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maxxer
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Think Merc has to do something about their floor its flapping up and down more then a flexi wing

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:45 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:43 pm
I am just saying that is where the gap already appeared. Not that it is a race defining moment. Max had the pace all race long. Like you said. Why are we even discussing this?
Good question. It was you who brought it up rather than I, though.
It was you who said:

“ Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.”

Which made me think that yes indeed, he had to push the first laps but most races so far one was within a second of the other for multiple laps and in this case Max started to built the gap from the get go almost. From turn 1 really. To which you then disagreed. And agreed. So yes, I have a hard time understanding the “arguement”. There is none.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:08 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:14 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:01 pm
Wasn’t it the moment that Lewis almost lost the car (but with incredibly quick reflexes and maximum steer correction at the exact right moment managed to catch it) when he went wide in corner 4 (exactly in the dirty air zone of a Haas I believe) where the gap suddenly increased from 5.2 to 6.2?
No. He lost about 1.5 tenth for that. It wasnt a slide. The car was about to step out but he caught it. Rear tyres couldn't give any more. Same issue throughout the weekend.

When the gap grew to six it was when they were chasing through traffic.
“It wasn’t a slide”. Why do you say that? I didn’t say it was a slide. You always seem to need to disagree even if there is none. And if you rewatch the moment you will see he was exactly in the dirty air distance (of the I believe Haas of MSC) He couldn’t do anything about that but I have seen time and again that if you are at that distance and it is a corner where your car is on the limit that it gives problems. Usually not direct behind but a bit further down. This is not an attack at Lewis, he could do nothing to prevent it. Just bad luck the backmarker was there.
Oh. Ok. So not this once then. Alright. So when are you gonna start back? Next race? :|
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
I dont understand how Bottas was penalized so heavily. And Max got away scott free, by deliberately spinning in a racing situation on a 200mph straight?!!

I know its the RedBull ring... But...
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:51 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:48 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:28 pm


Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.
I think (in hindsight the race was won at the start already, when Lewis had a little wobble from being directly behind Max in turn 1 (again, no criticism, just logical he was there) as a result he could not get into the slipstream up the hill and Max was gone.
I'm not sure it mattered much TBH. He may have managed to stay within DRS for a lap or two, but that's all that would have been different.
Never even got a sniff of DRS actually.

Max was in full control.

He had more tyre wear than Lewis in the first stint.. But less tyre degradation it seems. I never saw that in graphic form before. Thanks to AWS we can see it.
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