2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:03 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:45 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:43 pm
I am just saying that is where the gap already appeared. Not that it is a race defining moment. Max had the pace all race long. Like you said. Why are we even discussing this?
Good question. It was you who brought it up rather than I, though.
It was you who said:

“ Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.”

Which made me think that yes indeed, he had to push the first laps but most races so far one was within a second of the other for multiple laps and in this case Max started to built the gap from the get go almost. From turn 1 really. To which you then disagreed. And agreed. So yes, I have a hard time understanding the “arguement”. There is none.
I mean you brought up this 'wobble' which we have been referring to apparently as some sort of defining event, when it was completely insignificant and probably cost a tenth or two at most. But I did absolutely mention that I thought the gap was 1.5 seconds and it will have contributed to a tiny amount of that.

But yes, there's certainly no argument about the pace difference between the cars throughout the race.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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maxxer wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:58 pm
Think Merc has to do something about their floor its flapping up and down more then a flexi wing
I noticed how wobbly it was as well, actually. Definitely in comparison to other cars as well. I'm surprised if it gives them any advantage doing that. Perhaps the opposite if anything.

Aesop
Aesop
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
Just the FIA being consequent. In Baku Masi was also fine with Max coming to a full stop on the straight...

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Mogster
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Really is it much different to the weaving and slowing near the pit wall that’s been going on for years?

maxxer
maxxer
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:56 pm
maxxer wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:58 pm
Think Merc has to do something about their floor its flapping up and down more then a flexi wing
I noticed how wobbly it was as well, actually. Definitely in comparison to other cars as well. I'm surprised if it gives them any advantage doing that. Perhaps the opposite if anything.
My guess also that it wont give them an advantage it was creating turbulence on its own was surprised to see it in the slowmotion compared to the Red Bull floor
Last edited by maxxer on Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:43 pm
Really is it much different to the weaving and slowing near the pit wall that’s been going on for years?
Yeah, I agree. The weaving is dangerous as well and noone gives a damn. And I think it's fine like that. But you could easily lose the car as well and spin on the fastest part of the track while cars come flying by. So if people wanna be all pedantic about savety, then this would need to be forbidden as well.

Now that it's clarified, a penalty would be deserved if he or anyone does it again, but I'm sure that's understood.

I agree Bottas' penalty was harsh. I didn't think that they'd have penalized him as well when I saw the incident, but with his statements to the stewards afterwards, it was pretty much his own fault.

Should have just said "sorry, misjudged the grip level" or something like that and he might have gotten away with it. Instead he was like "oh yeah, we were experimenting with giving it full beans in the busy pitlane to gain 2/10ths in the next pit stop".

Sorry but that's just dumb. He was basically forcing the stewards to hand out that penalty.

maxxer
maxxer
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:11 pm
Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:43 pm
Really is it much different to the weaving and slowing near the pit wall that’s been going on for years?
Yeah, I agree. The weaving is dangerous as well and noone gives a damn. And I think it's fine like that. But you could easily lose the car as well and spin on the fastest part of the track while cars come flying by. So if people wanna be all pedantic about savety, then this would need to be forbidden as well.

Now that it's clarified, a penalty would be deserved if he or anyone does it again, but I'm sure that's understood.

I agree Bottas' penalty was harsh. I didn't think that they'd have penalized him as well when I saw the incident, but with his statements to the stewards afterwards, it was pretty much his own fault.

Should have just said "sorry, misjudged the grip level" or something like that and he might have gotten away with it. Instead he was like "oh yeah, we were experimenting with giving it full beans in the busy pitlane to gain 2/10ths in the next pit stop".

Sorry but that's just dumb. He was basically forcing the stewards to hand out that penalty.
Could have said the paint on the ground is to slippery for these cars and it would have been fixed lol

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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maxxer wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:11 pm
Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:43 pm
Really is it much different to the weaving and slowing near the pit wall that’s been going on for years?
Yeah, I agree. The weaving is dangerous as well and noone gives a damn. And I think it's fine like that. But you could easily lose the car as well and spin on the fastest part of the track while cars come flying by. So if people wanna be all pedantic about savety, then this would need to be forbidden as well.

Now that it's clarified, a penalty would be deserved if he or anyone does it again, but I'm sure that's understood.

I agree Bottas' penalty was harsh. I didn't think that they'd have penalized him as well when I saw the incident, but with his statements to the stewards afterwards, it was pretty much his own fault.

Should have just said "sorry, misjudged the grip level" or something like that and he might have gotten away with it. Instead he was like "oh yeah, we were experimenting with giving it full beans in the busy pitlane to gain 2/10ths in the next pit stop".

Sorry but that's just dumb. He was basically forcing the stewards to hand out that penalty.
Could have said the paint on the ground is to slippery for these cars and it would have been fixed lol
Exactly :lol: anything would have been better than what he said.

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Mogster
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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maxxer wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:11 pm
Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:43 pm
Really is it much different to the weaving and slowing near the pit wall that’s been going on for years?
Yeah, I agree. The weaving is dangerous as well and noone gives a damn. And I think it's fine like that. But you could easily lose the car as well and spin on the fastest part of the track while cars come flying by. So if people wanna be all pedantic about savety, then this would need to be forbidden as well.

Now that it's clarified, a penalty would be deserved if he or anyone does it again, but I'm sure that's understood.

I agree Bottas' penalty was harsh. I didn't think that they'd have penalized him as well when I saw the incident, but with his statements to the stewards afterwards, it was pretty much his own fault.

Should have just said "sorry, misjudged the grip level" or something like that and he might have gotten away with it. Instead he was like "oh yeah, we were experimenting with giving it full beans in the busy pitlane to gain 2/10ths in the next pit stop".

Sorry but that's just dumb. He was basically forcing the stewards to hand out that penalty.
Could have said the paint on the ground is to slippery for these cars and it would have been fixed lol
That’s what Toto said, Valtteri should have started ranting about “dangerous paint” in the pit lane :lol:

Overall on a couple of levels I don’t think the incident has helped Bottas’s pitch for a new contract…

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:32 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:08 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:14 pm


No. He lost about 1.5 tenth for that. It wasnt a slide. The car was about to step out but he caught it. Rear tyres couldn't give any more. Same issue throughout the weekend.

When the gap grew to six it was when they were chasing through traffic.
“It wasn’t a slide”. Why do you say that? I didn’t say it was a slide. You always seem to need to disagree even if there is none. And if you rewatch the moment you will see he was exactly in the dirty air distance (of the I believe Haas of MSC) He couldn’t do anything about that but I have seen time and again that if you are at that distance and it is a corner where your car is on the limit that it gives problems. Usually not direct behind but a bit further down. This is not an attack at Lewis, he could do nothing to prevent it. Just bad luck the backmarker was there.
Oh. Ok. So not this once then. Alright. So when are you gonna start back? Next race? :|
Well, you see everything I write as an attack, as do some others. So probably? I just wanted to say these are the moments that always make me so impressed with him, how quick he can react and correct. I think that was abundantly clear also. He also had such a moment of super quick reaction years ago during an FP in Monaco, Next to the casino. Almost everyone else would have crashed. And now you will probably think I mean this as he only does something exceptionally good every few years and it is another attack. No, it is just that you don’t often see everything televised in detail. The correction was (on Dutch tv). These are the moments even an casual onlooker can see what it takes to be on top of the game.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:15 pm
maxxer wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:11 pm


Yeah, I agree. The weaving is dangerous as well and noone gives a damn. And I think it's fine like that. But you could easily lose the car as well and spin on the fastest part of the track while cars come flying by. So if people wanna be all pedantic about savety, then this would need to be forbidden as well.

Now that it's clarified, a penalty would be deserved if he or anyone does it again, but I'm sure that's understood.

I agree Bottas' penalty was harsh. I didn't think that they'd have penalized him as well when I saw the incident, but with his statements to the stewards afterwards, it was pretty much his own fault.

Should have just said "sorry, misjudged the grip level" or something like that and he might have gotten away with it. Instead he was like "oh yeah, we were experimenting with giving it full beans in the busy pitlane to gain 2/10ths in the next pit stop".


Sorry but that's just dumb. He was basically forcing the stewards to hand out that penalty.
Could have said the paint on the ground is to slippery for these cars and it would have been fixed lol
That’s what Toto said, Valtteri should have started ranting about “dangerous paint” in the pit lane :lol:

Overall on a couple of levels I don’t think the incident has helped Bottas’s pitch for a new contract…
I'm quite surprised that with the limiter on ( which it had to have been would it not?) the wheels would spin up that much before it cut in. I don't know how many RPM the wheel does at pit speed, and how many at the point it broke, but it can not have been much. What was it? maybe 2 seconds? it should have been well on the way to hitting the limit then
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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ringo
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Anyhow good race by Valteri. He did a really good job to stay in 3rd. I think this was one of his strongest races this season.
For Sure!!

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nzjrs
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Location: Austria/UK

Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:41 pm
Anyhow good race by Valteri. He did a really good job to stay in 3rd. I think this was one of his strongest races this season.
I agree actually. I liked the composure he had where he over pushed the tires and he told the team on radio that the target times they gave him were not achievable, Perez caught up a bit, and went he tires recovered, Valtteri pulled away again.

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:03 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:17 am

Lew has been very good over the years, but not as good as a lot of ppl tend to believe ..
Which can exactly be applied to other champions. Michael has stats that are partly down to car dominance. Vettel definitely does, as we can see with him having been decidedly average almost since his Red Bull days with only the occasional short run of competitive driving since.

It's how you do when the car isn't the top car that defines you. Max has driven competitively and dragged the best out of his car for a few years, and now is enjoying a leading car. Lewis has enjoyed a leading car and is now dragging the best out of what he has in front of him. I actually think this year, albeit he won't win the title, will actually be one of those seasons that show how good he really is - just like the last few has shown how good Max really is. Both are generational talents.

One learns very little from success. Failure is the great teacher.
True to that, I just think that's just the root of the fierce my-driver-rules debates (well, rather monologues).
I greatly enjoyed stuff so far, and it's good to see the slightest error being punished by the competition. Hope things will stay somewhat like that for the years to come !
I would want 4/5 guys (or gals, but that seems unlikely at this point) every race to be able to win on merit .. I know it's not gonna be like that, but one can have dreams right ?
HuggaWugga !

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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TimW wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:00 am
Don't forget that Spielberg is at 600+ meter altitude and the Mercedes has always lost more power due to altitude than others. At sea level RB's advantage could be gone.
Well, the Merc's didn't lack much last year though ...
HuggaWugga !