2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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langedweil wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:43 pm

I would want 4/5 guys (or gals, but that seems unlikely at this point) every race to be able to win on merit .. I know it's not gonna be like that, but one can have dreams right ?
A nice idea.

I wonder, however, how common that has been in F1. And I mean since 1950. There is usually a dominant car/driver pairing with some competition even if just from a team mate. Of course historic scoring systems that allowed bad races to be ignored had an effect on championship fights too. Today, a DNF is a major blow, back in the day you just dropped the race from your score. But DNFs were a major source of "not the chosen one" type drivers catching wins back in the day.

Not that it should stop us wanting a multiple winners scenario.
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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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ringo wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:21 pm
langedweil wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:17 am
And that my friend is exactly what RBR and Fer have experienced over the last decade .. it's a whole lot easier when you're ahead in free air, driving @ 90% of your driver/car capability, compared to having to race up until %100 where you can only hope for some scraps left on the table.
Lew has been very good over the years, but not as good as a lot of ppl tend to believe ..
It's not the same. Over the years you didnt have a budget cap or had your car targeted for its weaknesses and rules made to stop you.
And Ferrari had the best car for 2 years. Their issues was their driver spinning and crashing out at low speeds.
Redbull Max was never really driving at 100% back then. He wasnt threatened by his teammate and the midfield was way behind.
He would just cruise around and collect 3rd place. Before then he was crashing all over the place. Much different story today.
Things are closer now, and im talking about the head to head. I don't mind RB being the faster car. I still think Lewis just needs to be within 2 tenths of the redbull to beat them, as he has already done at Bahrain. But what im concerned about is that Mercedes are not allowed to respond basically. The past has never been like this. The teams were limited by themselves. Now theyre stuck with 2020 chassis that they cannot change. But anyhow lets hope the team finds some pace despite being handicapped at the floor.
My dear fellow forummer ..
Probably it's just me, but I don't understand any of the logic at work in your response. Some of it might be correct, some of it certainly isn't.

-All teams were budget capped compared to Mercedes (they simply didn't have those amounts of money)
-2017 rules changes led to bigger floors benefitting low rake concept
-2019 simplified FW's hurt high rake massively, just as they seemed to have catched up
-Oil burning went on for way too long, whilst not within the 'spirits of the sport'
-Ferrari did not have the best car, they just tricked the fuelflow sensor giving them a huge free benefit of power, so much that even Merc couldn't keep up on the straights
-Max (as all others) surely had to drive 100%, or even try more than that to have just the slightest chance to the last podium crumb (hey hey, isn't that what the post initialy was about?)
-Max apparently never had a serious teammate in Daniel, and before that only crashed always

The point is; for the first time in 7yrs Ham is not ahead by miles for free (free as in the team decided beforehand a race how much power they would use to be sure to win, and to be sure as well the FIA wouldn't read too much in their performance that would justify counter-measures), and he simpy just has to work hard for it.
Just like the rest of the grid had to over the last 7yrs. And weirdly enough ... he just appears to be human and errors are starting to surface. Exactly how they happened to the Vet's and Ver's in that past. He is still top dog, no doubt .. but for the first time since 2014 the outcome is not settled at all, and I reckon things won't be decided soon. One DNF means a swicharoo ...

And I just simply love that ... or as some say, "simply lovely".
Let the gladiators enter the arena !
Last edited by langedweil on Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
HuggaWugga !

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Aesop wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:07 pm
cooken wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:03 pm
The big question is, where are all the safety proponents decrying the burnout by Max? Surely it was up there with the dangerous move from Bottas? No people on the track but other cars coming by at full speed.
Just the FIA being consequent. In Baku Masi was also fine with Max coming to a full stop on the straight...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
HuggaWugga !

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:34 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:43 pm

I would want 4/5 guys (or gals, but that seems unlikely at this point) every race to be able to win on merit .. I know it's not gonna be like that, but one can have dreams right ?
A nice idea.

I wonder, however, how common that has been in F1. And I mean since 1950. There is usually a dominant car/driver pairing with some competition even if just from a team mate. Of course historic scoring systems that allowed bad races to be ignored had an effect on championship fights too. Today, a DNF is a major blow, back in the day you just dropped the race from your score. But DNFs were a major source of "not the chosen one" type drivers catching wins back in the day.

Not that it should stop us wanting a multiple winners scenario.
True, it never has been like that really except for maybe a very few occasions .. but it would be hugely entertaining (and agonising at the same time). Imagine a win for Bot in Spain, Norris in Italy, Lec in Monaco etc. The WDC would be intense at this very point in time ..
But true, if at all it's a party-of-3 match at the most going by historic standards.
HuggaWugga !

Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:15 pm
So... Bahrain, Imola, Portugal, Monaco.. Baku.. France.. Styria.. Austria.
RedBull way faster so far. Did I miss any others?
Bahrain - RBR
Imola - Merc
Portugal - Merc
Spain - Merc
Monaco - RBR
Baku - RBR
France - Merc
Styria - RBR

This is what a close championship fight actually feels like.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:15 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:15 pm
So... Bahrain, Imola, Portugal, Monaco.. Baku.. France.. Styria.. Austria.
RedBull way faster so far. Did I miss any others?
Bahrain - RBR
Imola - Merc
Portugal - Merc
Spain - Merc
Monaco - RBR
Baku - RBR
France - Merc
Styria - RBR

This is what a close championship fight actually feels like.
Indeed, that seems like a more appropriate listing of who was faster where. Although France was really close.

Aesop
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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langedweil wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:27 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:34 am
langedweil wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:43 pm

I would want 4/5 guys (or gals, but that seems unlikely at this point) every race to be able to win on merit .. I know it's not gonna be like that, but one can have dreams right ?
A nice idea.

I wonder, however, how common that has been in F1. And I mean since 1950. There is usually a dominant car/driver pairing with some competition even if just from a team mate. Of course historic scoring systems that allowed bad races to be ignored had an effect on championship fights too. Today, a DNF is a major blow, back in the day you just dropped the race from your score. But DNFs were a major source of "not the chosen one" type drivers catching wins back in the day.

Not that it should stop us wanting a multiple winners scenario.
True, it never has been like that really except for maybe a very few occasions .. but it would be hugely entertaining (and agonising at the same time). Imagine a win for Bot in Spain, Norris in Italy, Lec in Monaco etc. The WDC would be intense at this very point in time ..
But true, if at all it's a party-of-3 match at the most going by historic standards.
Like Formula E...I am not sure how good that would be as I feel FE is too much of a lottery.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Aesop wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:39 am
langedweil wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:27 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:34 am

A nice idea.

I wonder, however, how common that has been in F1. And I mean since 1950. There is usually a dominant car/driver pairing with some competition even if just from a team mate. Of course historic scoring systems that allowed bad races to be ignored had an effect on championship fights too. Today, a DNF is a major blow, back in the day you just dropped the race from your score. But DNFs were a major source of "not the chosen one" type drivers catching wins back in the day.

Not that it should stop us wanting a multiple winners scenario.
True, it never has been like that really except for maybe a very few occasions .. but it would be hugely entertaining (and agonising at the same time). Imagine a win for Bot in Spain, Norris in Italy, Lec in Monaco etc. The WDC would be intense at this very point in time ..
But true, if at all it's a party-of-3 match at the most going by historic standards.
Like Formula E...I am not sure how good that would be as I feel FE is too much of a lottery.
To some extend, although you do see a few drivers that tend to be among the upper regions more or less consistently.

But F1 should not become a spec series. The regulations should be such that the odds of one team dominating are reduced, but still the capability of the design engineers (under the conditions of equal resources, aka a cost cap) is part of the equation. However, I would love to see F1 drivers in spec cars (F2 or so) for a couple of races each year, just to see how good they (and their race engineers) are when the car is taken out of the equation.

i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Mogster wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:10 pm
On the Sky broadcast recently Rosberg described the thought of losing to Max as “horrible”.
I'd take anything Rosberg says with a grain of salt, he's hired to create entertainment, just looking to create drama wherever he can. Just look at how he tried to stir something up between Norris and Gasly last race.

Edax
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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DChemTech wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:55 am
Aesop wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:39 am
langedweil wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:27 am


True, it never has been like that really except for maybe a very few occasions .. but it would be hugely entertaining (and agonising at the same time). Imagine a win for Bot in Spain, Norris in Italy, Lec in Monaco etc. The WDC would be intense at this very point in time ..
But true, if at all it's a party-of-3 match at the most going by historic standards.
Like Formula E...I am not sure how good that would be as I feel FE is too much of a lottery.
To some extend, although you do see a few drivers that tend to be among the upper regions more or less consistently.

But F1 should not become a spec series. The regulations should be such that the odds of one team dominating are reduced, but still the capability of the design engineers (under the conditions of equal resources, aka a cost cap) is part of the equation. However, I would love to see F1 drivers in spec cars (F2 or so) for a couple of races each year, just to see how good they (and their race engineers) are when the car is taken out of the equation.
I would love to see that. In nascar it is normal to see drivers for instance competing in the truck series as well as cup. In the past F1 drivers also had guest appearances in F3.

I think it would be a great system where the juniors can learn from the experienced drivers. The F1 drivers can practice some skills that are less often needed in F1. Moreover it makes it easier to benchmark juniors. In F2 and F3 the driver quality seems to fluctuate quite a lot from year to year. Adding a fixed quantity helps to see how good they really are.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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I think (but I might be wrong here) that they need to get permission to do burnouts, or at least do them way off track. Hamilton certainly has done them as I recall at Silverstone and also various races where he's clinched titles, but as far as I remember with permission.

However, this Verstappen burnout stuff has been a bit overreacted to. Yes it was a bit silly to do it on the track while a race is still going on, but he was lost in the moment celebrating a watershed victory. Luckily no harm done, and he's had a rap on the knuckles for it, so I'm sure he won't do it again.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Edax wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:20 am
DChemTech wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:55 am
Aesop wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:39 am

Like Formula E...I am not sure how good that would be as I feel FE is too much of a lottery.
To some extend, although you do see a few drivers that tend to be among the upper regions more or less consistently.

But F1 should not become a spec series. The regulations should be such that the odds of one team dominating are reduced, but still the capability of the design engineers (under the conditions of equal resources, aka a cost cap) is part of the equation. However, I would love to see F1 drivers in spec cars (F2 or so) for a couple of races each year, just to see how good they (and their race engineers) are when the car is taken out of the equation.
I would love to see that. In nascar it is normal to see drivers for instance competing in the truck series as well as cup. In the past F1 drivers also had guest appearances in F3.

I think it would be a great system where the juniors can learn from the experienced drivers. The F1 drivers can practice some skills that are less often needed in F1. Moreover it makes it easier to benchmark juniors. In F2 and F3 the driver quality seems to fluctuate quite a lot from year to year. Adding a fixed quantity helps to see how good they really are.
I'd love them to all have a kart race once a year. I think that would be great fun.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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They should introduce go-karts than for a Monaco qualifier sprint-race

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:33 am
They should introduce go-karts than for a Monaco qualifier sprint-race
Or just for the whole GP? At least then there might be an overtake :)

sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:15 am
Bahrain - RBR
Imola - Merc
Portugal - Merc
Spain - Merc
Monaco - RBR
Baku - RBR
France - Merc
Styria - RBR
I agree!
So basically, this is first proper track that RB was faster! I have feeling this was important for the championship!

And just to add, when Perez was catching Bottas, he would loose a little bit of time on every straight, so I really don't know where this "Honda is too powerful" crap is coming from.

In France Max was saved by 0.9s gap he would open in T5, just to loose 0.6s on the next straight. I wonder how many of those 6 tenths was down to bendy FW...?? :?: