2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:15 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:15 pm
So... Bahrain, Imola, Portugal, Monaco.. Baku.. France.. Styria.. Austria.
RedBull way faster so far. Did I miss any others?
Bahrain - RBR
Imola - Merc
Portugal - Merc
Spain - Merc
Monaco - RBR
Baku - RBR
France - Merc
Styria - RBR

This is what a close championship fight actually feels like.
Your forgot Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy in your little list because data says otherwise.
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Ringleheim
Ringleheim
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Good God, what a boring race this was.

And we get another one in a few days!

sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:54 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:15 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:15 pm
So... Bahrain, Imola, Portugal, Monaco.. Baku.. France.. Styria.. Austria.
RedBull way faster so far. Did I miss any others?
Bahrain - RBR
Imola - Merc
Portugal - Merc
Spain - Merc
Monaco - RBR
Baku - RBR
France - Merc
Styria - RBR

This is what a close championship fight actually feels like.
Your forgot Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy in your little list because data says otherwise.
How can you say RB was faster in Imola, Portugal, Spain and France? :wtf:

Maybe we should talk about RB+Max vs Merc+Ham and not about RB vs Merc because that turns into you know what...

For example France, Hamilton had some serious pace when he switched to H.
I believe Max would not finish the race H tires after he pushed so hard, but Hamilton had very good pace till the end of the race, and if hadn't went off and lost the pace, he would have won!

Imola same thing. Incredible pace on hard tire. And the speed he had on that straight was 2019 ferrari territory.

For some reason, Mercedes is not as quick in Q as it is in the race.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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In France turning on the hard tyre was key to the undercut to win the race and that was what RedBull was able to do. it was definitely the better car for the race.
I think it was also better in qualifying too.
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sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:48 pm
In France turning on the hard tyre was key to the undercut to win the race and that was what RedBull was able to do. it was definitely the better car for the race.
I think it was also better in qualifying too.
I think that without 2nd stop Hamilton would overtake Max. He was faster over the race distance. You are right about Q and switching on the tires.

mkay
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:30 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:48 pm
In France turning on the hard tyre was key to the undercut to win the race and that was what RedBull was able to do. it was definitely the better car for the race.
I think it was also better in qualifying too.
I think that without 2nd stop Hamilton would overtake Max. He was faster over the race distance. You are right about Q and switching on the tires.
Hamilton himself disagrees. They lacked top speed that weekend due to aero setup compromise. A bit like Verstappen stuck behind Bottas in Portimao, though he eventually got past on strategy.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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James Vowles said it, not I.
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Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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You can’t stay in the DRS zone for as long as Hamilton did on Verstappen (lap 20-29) without having a significant pace advantage.

basti313
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:10 am
You can’t stay in the DRS zone for as long as Hamilton did on Verstappen (lap 20-29) without having a significant pace advantage.
Absolutely. It was the first time since Pirelli that a car could follow another car that close and that long on a non-street circuit without completely murdering the tires. The only similar timeframe was Monza 19 but there Ham murdered the tires and fell to P3 after such a hunt.

And please...stop the bullsh...on the switching on the tires: Bottas outlap was something like 3 tenth slower than Ves. This is a normal, rather even small difference for a mediocre driver. Rosberg could not have done this. The time was lost on the inlaps and in the pits, otherwise Bot would have undercutted Ves.

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ringo
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:10 am
You can’t stay in the DRS zone for as long as Hamilton did on Verstappen (lap 20-29) without having a significant pace advantage.
Depends on the sectors in the track that the cars a stronger or weaker and what proportion of the lap is responsible for what portion of the lap time.
You can stay in drs zone if you come off a corner much faster than who you are following. And who you are following could be sacrificing that section to save KERS energy for later.
Also what is clear now is that mercedes dont have a pace advantage. They are depending on their strategy pushing Redbull to run long enough that its pace degrades down to mercedes level. They were hoping for the same in Austria as it was in France, but redbull learned the trick and simply setup themselves more for tyre preservation while still keeping their pace advantage.

Helmut Marko sums it up perfectly:
“The overall advantage we have is that our car has been fast on every circuit to date,” Marko told RacingNews365.

“We have been continuously fast with relatively few adjustments. At Mercedes, you can see they have to make a lot of adjustments to the car. Hamilton usually manages to do this, so he is there at the right time.

“But it’s clear Mercedes sometimes experiment. Monaco is an example of that for me. Bottas was very strong there and Lewis nowhere. In Baku, it was completely reversed.

“It seems risks are being taken. With us, fewer adjustments are needed. The car is immediately competitive.”
For Sure!!

Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:27 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:10 am
You can’t stay in the DRS zone for as long as Hamilton did on Verstappen (lap 20-29) without having a significant pace advantage.
Depends on the sectors in the track that the cars a stronger or weaker and what proportion of the lap is responsible for what portion of the lap time.
You can stay in drs zone if you come off a corner much faster than who you are following. And who you are following could be sacrificing that section to save KERS energy for later.
Get real.

There’s no way anyone who is not intellectually dishonest could watch the first 30 laps of the French GP and not come to the conclusion that Mercedes had some pace advantage.

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ringo
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Why were they overtaken in the pits then, if they were that much quicker?
Anyhow lets focus on this weekend and not go off topic.
For Sure!!

Kingshark
Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:55 pm
Why were they overtaken in the pits then, if they were that much quicker?
Because Mercedes underestimated the undercut by their own admission. Their computers believed that Lewis would exit the pits 1.5 seconds ahead of Max (which you would know if you listened to Lewis’ radio on the pit exit).

Why did Verstappen constantly drop back from Hamilton in the opening stint when both drivers were on the same tyres, while Hamilton easily kept within DRS of Verstappen when he was the one chasing?

I know that there is a strong RB16B > W12 agenda floating around here because some people are petrified by the idea that their hero is being outperformed by a younger driver in an equal car, but let’s not twist the facts here.

dans79
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Now I understand why Masi wasn't happy about Max's immediate post race burnout.

173 101 99 7

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

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Kingshark wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:47 pm
ringo wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:55 pm
Why were they overtaken in the pits then, if they were that much quicker?
Because Mercedes underestimated the undercut by their own admission. Their computers believed that Lewis would exit the pits 1.5 seconds ahead of Max (which you would know if you listened to Lewis’ radio on the pit exit).

Why did Verstappen constantly drop back from Hamilton in the opening stint when both drivers were on the same tyres, while Hamilton easily kept within DRS of Verstappen when he was the one chasing?

I know that there is a strong RB16B > W12 agenda floating around here because some people are petrified by the idea that their hero is being outperformed by a younger driver in an equal car, but let’s not twist the facts here.
Max probably backed off Hamilton to prolong the life of the tires and saved them for when he needed them - the lap that Bottas tried to undercut him and failed. Max pitting after Bottas was said to be to cover the stop. Perez showed that preserving the tires for a later stop and having fresher tires allowed him to have a faster pace across the entire race. If Perez had been pitted just one lap earlier in Spielberg he would have been able to get Bottas. This year is one that is really defined by how timely the change to the right tire is and how much to push at what part of the stint.