2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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People tend to take things out of context. I say reading comprehension is an important skill.

Anyway. See y'all in the next celebration. :wink:
. 100!!. CEN . TUR.. ION. 100!!..

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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This is supposedly a recreation/translation of the agreed upon guidelines for the drivers and stewards for overtaking which were sent to Masi by Wolff:

The automatic translation is a bit wonky but good enough.

EDIT: According to MST this most likely was not a current document but was given to Mercedes by Whiting in 2015 and since Merc was never given any contradicting information they believed it was still the basis for the stewards' decisions today, Masi was supposedly not aware of that particular document and there's no info about the current guidelines. It is a bit surprising though that RedBull never said "they argued with an old document so it all remains a bit mysterious.
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:33 pm
People tend to take things out of context. I say reading comprehension is an important skill.

Anyway. See y'all in the next celebration. :wink:
Welcome back.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:41 pm
This is supposedly a recreation/translation of the agreed upon guidelines for the drivers and stewards for overtaking which were sent to Masi by Wolff:

The automatic translation is a bit wonky but good enough.
What translation?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

dans79
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:09 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:41 pm
This is supposedly a recreation/translation of the agreed upon guidelines for the drivers and stewards for overtaking which were sent to Masi by Wolff:

The automatic translation is a bit wonky but good enough.
What translation?
I think he is referring to If you have an android phone you can use the camera 'lens' mode to translate it.
176 101 100 7

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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No, i just wasn't aware that it would get embedded, when you go to FB there should be an automatic translation to whichever language FB is set to.
Here's the translation of the post:
Image
Translated image:
Image

EDIT: According to MST this most likely was not a current document but was given to Mercedes by Whiting in 2015 and since Merc was never given any contradicting information they believed it was still the basis for the stewards' decisions today, Masi was supposedly not aware of that particular document and there's no info about the current guidelines. It is a bit surprising though that RedBull never said "they argued with an old document so it all remains a bit mysterious.
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dans79
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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176 101 100 7

Fulcrum
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Driver61: "In my opinion, this was 100% Lewis Hamilton's fault."



As for the incident itself, probably still a racing incident in my book, with more blame attributable to Hamilton.

The issue here is really the brinkmanship both drivers are beginning to engage in.

My suspicion is, Hamilton did the calculus and realized the potential outcomes of contact in that corner largely favoured him, rolled the dice, and was proved correct. Further, he appears relatively remorseless.

As PZ has said already, Hamilton is an expert at driving in the 'grey zone'; not being dirty as such, but walking the line between hard and illegal driving. Moreover, he is obviously competitive, so the gloves are off in that regard.

Verstappen... Well he's already declared himself with THAT tweet, and what with the environment of Marko and Horner, I cannot imagine he will be able to rise above the histrionics, or de-escalate the tension, which is a shame because I think he could walk away with this title if he simply remained calm and rational, rather than resorting to petulance.

Overall, I suspect race threads are going to get locked more often this year. I just hope no-one gets hurt, whatever happens.

ArcticWolfie
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:37 pm
Driver61: "In my opinion, this was 100% Lewis Hamilton's fault."



As for the incident itself, probably still a racing incident in my book, with more blame attributable to Hamilton.

The issue here is really the brinkmanship both drivers are beginning to engage in.

My suspicion is, Hamilton did the calculus and realized the potential outcomes of contact in that corner largely favoured him, rolled the dice, and was proved correct. Further, he appears relatively remorseless.

As PZ has said already, Hamilton is an expert at driving in the 'grey zone'; not being dirty as such, but walking the line between hard and illegal driving. Moreover, he is obviously competitive, so the gloves are off in that regard.

Verstappen... Well he's already declared himself with THAT tweet, and what with the environment of Marko and Horner, I cannot imagine he will be able to rise above the histrionics, or de-escalate the tension, which is a shame because I think he could walk away with this title if he simply remained calm and rational, rather than resorting to petulance.

Overall, I suspect race threads are going to get locked more often this year. I just hope no-one gets hurt, whatever happens.
I think Hamilton's emotions got the better of him and lost himself there for a moment, instead of taking the "loss" and lift for a moment... As a competitive person myself I can totally imagine it. As a Max fan I can let that part go actually, but I'm galled because of his arrogance and outrage celebration. He f*cked up in the heat of the moment, but doesn't show any remorse and refuses to apologize.
And maybe even worse; he probably triggered an engine penalty later in the season because while Honda says the engine "may" be salvageable, it will be a huge gamble. The reliability may be damaged by the crash and cause a failure later on. Gambling on reliability issues or take a penalty for a new engine?... not an easy choice. (this is without taking the cost cap in consideration).
This race may have decided the championship already.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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I don’t buy the being offended at the celebration part.

Especially how we celebrate quotes from Grand Prix, and romanticize greats of the past for being ruthless in their pursuit of victory, and applaud Max for having many of the same attributes.

How many times have we heard Max compared to a young Senna?

Lewis won at his home track, in front of the first full grand stands since 2019… he’s going to be amped.

It’s not an either or thing and it’s just a “no offense, but” type of statement.

Max went to the hospital for precautionary reasons, because Silverstone doesn’t have a CT scanner like other tracks. 51g’s is a hard impact for sure, but NASCAR and Indy Car routinely have those. It’s not unheard of or especially rare. He walked away under his own power and that’s what was relayed to Lewis when Lewis asked.

No amount of Horner / Marko spin changes those facts.

Max’s car being wrecked isn’t Lewis problem. Much as it would be the same if roles were reversed.
Last edited by Hoffman900 on Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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kenshi_blind
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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ArcticWolfie wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:49 pm
Fulcrum wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:37 pm
Driver61: "In my opinion, this was 100% Lewis Hamilton's fault."



As for the incident itself, probably still a racing incident in my book, with more blame attributable to Hamilton.

The issue here is really the brinkmanship both drivers are beginning to engage in.

My suspicion is, Hamilton did the calculus and realized the potential outcomes of contact in that corner largely favoured him, rolled the dice, and was proved correct. Further, he appears relatively remorseless.

As PZ has said already, Hamilton is an expert at driving in the 'grey zone'; not being dirty as such, but walking the line between hard and illegal driving. Moreover, he is obviously competitive, so the gloves are off in that regard.

Verstappen... Well he's already declared himself with THAT tweet, and what with the environment of Marko and Horner, I cannot imagine he will be able to rise above the histrionics, or de-escalate the tension, which is a shame because I think he could walk away with this title if he simply remained calm and rational, rather than resorting to petulance.

Overall, I suspect race threads are going to get locked more often this year. I just hope no-one gets hurt, whatever happens.
I think Hamilton's emotions got the better of him and lost himself there for a moment, instead of taking the "loss" and lift for a moment... As a competitive person myself I can totally imagine it. As a Max fan I can let that part go actually, but I'm galled because of his arrogance and outrage celebration. He f*cked up in the heat of the moment, but doesn't show any remorse and refuses to apologize.
And maybe even worse; he probably triggered an engine penalty later in the season because while Honda says the engine "may" be salvageable, it will be a huge gamble. The reliability may be damaged by the crash and cause a failure later on. Gambling on reliability issues or take a penalty for a new engine?... not an easy choice. (this is without taking the cost cap in consideration).
This race may have decided the championship already.
i will never understand the line of thought which suggest that Hamilton must have shown remorse ? for what exactly ? standing his ground ? and apologize for what again ? how many times has Verstappen apologized for bomb diving or crashing into other drivers ? why is it that it must be Hamilton that have to yield even when he shouldn't because MAx does not care if he caused a collision or not ?

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Looking back the day after I feel it was just a clumbsy move by Hamilton. He actually got next to Max before the corner entry, but realised that with his dirty pickup and heavy car he could not keep a tight corner and backed off, which caused the speed difference and harsh collision. He should have braked earlier or just kept going.

ArcticWolfie
ArcticWolfie
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:53 pm
I don’t buy the being offended at the celebration part.

Especially how we celebrate quotes from Grand Prix, and romanticize greats of the past for being ruthless in their pursuit of victory, and applaud Max for having many of the same attributes.

How many times have we heard Max compared to a young Senna?

Lewis won at his home track, in front of the first full grand stands since 2019… he’s going to be amped.

It’s not an either or thing and it’s just a “no offense, but” type of statement.

Max went to the hospital for precautionary reasons, because Silverstone doesn’t have a CT scanner like other tracks. 51g’s is a hard impact for sure, but NASCAR and Indy Car routinely have those. It’s not unheard of or especially rare. He walked away under his own power and that’s what was relayed to Lewis when Lewis asked.

No amount of Horner / Marko spin changes those facts.

Max’s car being wrecked isn’t Lewis problem. Much as it would be the same if roles were reversed.
Yeah, your statement says it all... It gives you a free pass to "accidently" touch your opponent without (barely any) consequences.

Masi underlines that:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/masi ... s/6633598/

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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They shouldn’t.

Lewis (or Max if reversed) don’t have control of what the track looks like.

At Monaco anything offline is a crash. At Paul Ricard, Max would probably still be spinning in space (exaggeration).

So if consequences decide outcomes, then it would have to he decided on a corner by corner, track by track, basis. That would make all of this way less clear cut than it already is.

If the penalty worked on a $$ damage basis, then the teams would just inflate the costs (kind of like an insurance scam).

If it was decided on perceived injuries, you would see some Mansell level, Oscar worthy, performances.

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henry
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:30 pm
No, i just wasn't aware that it would get embedded, when you go to FB there should be an automatic translation to whichever language FB is set to.
Here's the translation of the post:
https://i.imgur.com/cSXKgBh.png
Translated image:
https://i.imgur.com/PuX1iGt.png
In my opinion this is nonsense for two reasons.

1. It would prevent there ever being multi corner side by side racing.

2. In claiming the corner the a car would per se be crowding another car off the track, hence illegal.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus