2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

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Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:28 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:04 pm
So Your claiming max is a dirty driver, thats real interesting!
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:40 pm
:shock: :lol:
There is an art to driving dirty. The art is to be as aggressive as possible without braking any rules. It’s the art of dancing in the grey area.

Rosberg talked about that in a recent interview. He said that it frustrated him how Lewis was always able to get away with moves like USA 2015. That’s because Lewis knew how to stay within the grey area. When Rosberg tried to be aggressive (Spa 2014), he ended up overstepping the mark completely.

Verstappen is even better than Hamilton at knowing how to balance the fine line between harsh racing and breaking the rules. The starts in Imola and Spain were a perfect example. Then when Hamilton tried to be aggressive in Silverstone, he ended up overstepping the mark completely and got a penalty.

Ironic how Verstappen is making Hamilton look like Rosberg.
And here we go again. The ONLY reason Verstappen got away with the start in Spain, was because Hamilton let him. If he acted the same as Max in Copse, the result would be the same as in Copse. Full stop. Now move on.

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:58 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:04 pm


If you say so. If you think everyone is jumping up and down in anger then you're mistaken. Most people aren't. Max / Red Bull fans are, most others aren't. The media are happy to stoke up a story that isn't there, but other than that, nope, no one cares.
A classic oxymoron. :wink:
Media is writing the story because there is a reason (51g impact on a human being), you think it's a stoke up, you say no one cares, while clearly there's is a concern all around.
Remember when Max almost killed Kimi, a human being, in Belgium?

Not the first time, either. The White Knight charade for Verstappen is such a joke that it’s time this was posted.

Vettel says it perfectly in the video. Verstappen’s amateurish bully tactics work, so long as the other car just reacts like a defensive driver on the roadway. Hamilton had reacted like that before. But no more.

https://youtu.be/lkAoSghdD6Y

And at least in Hamilton’s case, he was only partially to blame for what happened (hence the “predominantly” language in the stewards’ report).
Well I guess there are "people jumping up and down in anger" after all.

Agree that there are quite a few questionable moves from VER from the past. But he's tested the limits and is a hard but clean racer these days (and you can find similar videos of HAM). This one was on Hamilton, even though I would let it slide as a race incident this time. But if they dont punish it, then drivers will be pushing each other out each race.

I hope VER doesn't take this as an invitation to race even harder now. A retribution move would surely be punished much harder to set a precident.

dans79
dans79
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm
I hope VER doesn't take this as an invitation to race even harder now. A retribution move would surely be punished much harder to set a precident.
I think that all depends on how much he lets his father, Horner, and Marko dictate his feelings on the incident.
176 101 100 7

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:58 pm
Ryar wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:06 pm
A classic oxymoron. :wink:
Media is writing the story because there is a reason (51g impact on a human being), you think it's a stoke up, you say no one cares, while clearly there's is a concern all around.
Remember when Max almost killed Kimi, a human being, in Belgium?

Not the first time, either. The White Knight charade for Verstappen is such a joke that it’s time this was posted.

Vettel says it perfectly in the video. Verstappen’s amateurish bully tactics work, so long as the other car just reacts like a defensive driver on the roadway. Hamilton had reacted like that before. But no more.

https://youtu.be/lkAoSghdD6Y

And at least in Hamilton’s case, he was only partially to blame for what happened (hence the “predominantly” language in the stewards’ report).
Well I guess there are "people jumping up and down in anger" after all.

Agree that there are quite a few questionable moves from VER from the past. But he's tested the limits and is a hard but clean racer these days (and you can find similar videos of HAM). This one was on Hamilton, even though I would let it slide as a race incident this time. But if they dont punish it, then drivers will be pushing each other out each race.

I hope VER doesn't take this as an invitation to race even harder now. A retribution move would surely be punished much harder to set a precident.
He doesn’t race cleaner these days.

Horner even admitted that at Barcelona that if Lewis didn’t back out, they were crashing. He then applauded the move by Max and called it “full Max Verstappen”.

So when Max goes charging into a corner, and the other driver backs out, it’s worthy of admiration and praise, but if the other driver doesn’t, and they make contact, they’re calling for the other’s head on a stake.

Imola was the same story.

The videos and quotes are all out there for all to read.

This is what has Lewis’s side fired up. Take away Horner and Marko’s incendiary remarks, and this goes away sooner.

Fnatic1
Fnatic1
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

Post

Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:44 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:58 pm


Remember when Max almost killed Kimi, a human being, in Belgium?

Not the first time, either. The White Knight charade for Verstappen is such a joke that it’s time this was posted.

Vettel says it perfectly in the video. Verstappen’s amateurish bully tactics work, so long as the other car just reacts like a defensive driver on the roadway. Hamilton had reacted like that before. But no more.

https://youtu.be/lkAoSghdD6Y

And at least in Hamilton’s case, he was only partially to blame for what happened (hence the “predominantly” language in the stewards’ report).
Well I guess there are "people jumping up and down in anger" after all.

Agree that there are quite a few questionable moves from VER from the past. But he's tested the limits and is a hard but clean racer these days (and you can find similar videos of HAM). This one was on Hamilton, even though I would let it slide as a race incident this time. But if they dont punish it, then drivers will be pushing each other out each race.

I hope VER doesn't take this as an invitation to race even harder now. A retribution move would surely be punished much harder to set a precident.
He doesn’t race cleaner these days.

Horner even admitted that at Barcelona that if Lewis didn’t back out, they were crashing. He then applauded the move by Max and called it “full Max Verstappen”.

So when Max goes charging into a corner, and the other driver backs out, it’s worthy of admiration and praise, but if the other driver doesn’t, and they make contact, they’re calling for the other’s head on a stake.

Imola was the same story.

The videos and quotes are all out there for all to read.
The reason being that HAM move in this instance was clumsy to say the least as he didn’t make the apex. That’s why he is criticized for this.

In racing, there’s a subtle difference in between being aggressive or reckless.
The racing prior to Copse was aggressive, Max made the apex at Brooklands for example.
At Copse, Lewis missed the apex, thus can be regarded as reckless in my opinion as he misjudged it.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:52 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:44 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm


Well I guess there are "people jumping up and down in anger" after all.

Agree that there are quite a few questionable moves from VER from the past. But he's tested the limits and is a hard but clean racer these days (and you can find similar videos of HAM). This one was on Hamilton, even though I would let it slide as a race incident this time. But if they dont punish it, then drivers will be pushing each other out each race.

I hope VER doesn't take this as an invitation to race even harder now. A retribution move would surely be punished much harder to set a precident.
He doesn’t race cleaner these days.

Horner even admitted that at Barcelona that if Lewis didn’t back out, they were crashing. He then applauded the move by Max and called it “full Max Verstappen”.

So when Max goes charging into a corner, and the other driver backs out, it’s worthy of admiration and praise, but if the other driver doesn’t, and they make contact, they’re calling for the other’s head on a stake.

Imola was the same story.

The videos and quotes are all out there for all to read.
The reason being that HAM move in this instance was clumsy to say the least as he didn’t make the apex. That’s why he is criticized for this.

In racing, there’s a subtle difference in between being aggressive or reckless.
The racing prior to Copse was aggressive, Max made the apex at Brooklands for example.
At Copse, Lewis missed the apex, thus can be regarded as reckless in my opinion as he misjudged it.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/not-obli ... ppen-case/

Fnatic1
Fnatic1
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Tvetovnato wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:55 pm
Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:52 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:44 pm


He doesn’t race cleaner these days.

Horner even admitted that at Barcelona that if Lewis didn’t back out, they were crashing. He then applauded the move by Max and called it “full Max Verstappen”.

So when Max goes charging into a corner, and the other driver backs out, it’s worthy of admiration and praise, but if the other driver doesn’t, and they make contact, they’re calling for the other’s head on a stake.

Imola was the same story.

The videos and quotes are all out there for all to read.
The reason being that HAM move in this instance was clumsy to say the least as he didn’t make the apex. That’s why he is criticized for this.

In racing, there’s a subtle difference in between being aggressive or reckless.
The racing prior to Copse was aggressive, Max made the apex at Brooklands for example.
At Copse, Lewis missed the apex, thus can be regarded as reckless in my opinion as he misjudged it.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/not-obli ... ppen-case/
Indeed, you’re not obliged to hit the apex to make a move according to the rule book.

That doesn’t take away HAM should have been further to the inside as he also has had a car on the outside. VER left him a car width throughout the entire corner.

VER also had a right to take the corner (as he was ahead /they were kinda alongside), so you also got to respect the car on the outside.

Remember Austrian GP? Both Norris and Perez received penalties for this.

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langedweil
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Location: Caribbean

Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Girls club still busy I see ..
Anyone care for some tea ?
HuggaWugga !

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ringo
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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End of the day. Hamilton has 99 wins and 7 wdc. Max has none.
7 years in the sport and not much to show for it. Lewis had over 20 wins in less time even before the mercedes dominance.
Hamilton can take his sweet time and place his car on the inside every race and watch Max cut across like an insect flying towards the light.
And it will be perfectly within the rules.
Max is not at the same level in terms of race craft, race management, and mind management. All he has going for him is pace, reflexes and agression. 7 years in and he still comes across as a very talented rookie. He has not matured mentally much.

But fun times ahead. He will crash at least 2 more times this season and it will not be Lewis. It may br Norris, Perez, Bottas or Leclerc who Mad Max swipes across.
For Sure!!

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Couple of titbits from that podcast with Hill, Pinkham and Clarkson.

Hamilton didn't know Verstappen had been taken to hospital until Pinkham told him in the interview pen after the race.
Leclerc and Ferrari had no idea why they were so good on the mediums, according to Leclerc.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:59 pm
Tvetovnato wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:55 pm
Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:52 pm


The reason being that HAM move in this instance was clumsy to say the least as he didn’t make the apex. That’s why he is criticized for this.

In racing, there’s a subtle difference in between being aggressive or reckless.
The racing prior to Copse was aggressive, Max made the apex at Brooklands for example.
At Copse, Lewis missed the apex, thus can be regarded as reckless in my opinion as he misjudged it.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/not-obli ... ppen-case/
Indeed, you’re not obliged to hit the apex to make a move according to the rule book.

That doesn’t take away HAM should have been further to the inside as he also has had a car on the outside. VER left him a car width throughout the entire corner.

VER also had a right to take the corner (as he was ahead /they were kinda alongside), so you also got to respect the car on the outside.

Remember Austrian GP? Both Norris and Perez received penalties for this.
Yes he has the right to take the corner, but he also has to leave space since Lewis has a right to make the move. He DID leave space, but could have left more, since he could have anticipated a move. And I guess that’s reflected in the verdict as well by the stewards (the pre-dominantly phrasing). Lewis was a bit more at fault for sure. My main problem is the outrageous debate of whether it was deliberate or not, since it clearly was not.

Fnatic1
Fnatic1
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

Post

Tvetovnato wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:09 pm
Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:59 pm
Indeed, you’re not obliged to hit the apex to make a move according to the rule book.

That doesn’t take away HAM should have been further to the inside as he also has had a car on the outside. VER left him a car width throughout the entire corner.

VER also had a right to take the corner (as he was ahead /they were kinda alongside), so you also got to respect the car on the outside.

Remember Austrian GP? Both Norris and Perez received penalties for this.
Yes he has the right to take the corner, but he also has to leave space since Lewis has a right to make the move. He DID leave space, but could have left more, since he could have anticipated a move. And I guess that’s reflected in the verdict as well by the stewards (the pre-dominantly phrasing). Lewis was a bit more at fault for sure. My main problem is the outrageous debate of whether it was deliberate or not, since it clearly was not.
People claiming it was deliberate.. you just can’t take them seriously.

As a defending driver, the minimum space you have to leave is a car width. VER did that, even slightly more if you would measure it on the inch.

Should he have given more space? Obviously the crash happened, but he’s not entitled to.



Also looking at HAM trajectory, had VER given more space or come in at a wider angle, it wouldn’t have changed much. HAM was understeering all the way to the exit kerb so lines would have eventually crossed.

You can best notice this if you disregard VER in this footage and solely focus on HAM trajectory.

None of the analysts actually looked into HAM trajectory, they only analyzed the incident till the contact.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:15 pm
Tvetovnato wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:09 pm
Fnatic1 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:59 pm


Indeed, you’re not obliged to hit the apex to make a move according to the rule book.

That doesn’t take away HAM should have been further to the inside as he also has had a car on the outside. VER left him a car width throughout the entire corner.

VER also had a right to take the corner (as he was ahead /they were kinda alongside), so you also got to respect the car on the outside.

Remember Austrian GP? Both Norris and Perez received penalties for this.
Yes he has the right to take the corner, but he also has to leave space since Lewis has a right to make the move. He DID leave space, but could have left more, since he could have anticipated a move. And I guess that’s reflected in the verdict as well by the stewards (the pre-dominantly phrasing). Lewis was a bit more at fault for sure. My main problem is the outrageous debate of whether it was deliberate or not, since it clearly was not.
People claiming it was deliberate.. you just can’t take them seriously.

As a defending driver, the minimum space you have to leave is a car width. VER did that, even slightly more if you would measure it on the inch.

Should he have given more space? Obviously the crash happened, but he’s not entitled to.



Also looking at HAM trajectory, had VER given more space or come in at a wider angle, it wouldn’t have changed much. HAM was understeering all the way to the exit kerb so lines would have eventually crossed.

You can best notice this if you disregard VER in this footage and solely focus on HAM trajectory.

None of the analysts actually looked into HAM trajectory, they only analyzed the incident till the contact.
Yes, but the bump with Verstappens wheel also make him lose his steering input for a very brief moment, extending his wide line even more. It really is nip and tuck there.

Verstappen is of course not obliged to leave more space than he did, but the question for himself needs to be if he still should have. Just as Hamilton has been doing up until this point.

Exciting times going forward!

Kingshark
Kingshark
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 am

Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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Tvetovnato wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:28 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:04 pm
So Your claiming max is a dirty driver, thats real interesting!
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:40 pm
:shock: :lol:
There is an art to driving dirty. The art is to be as aggressive as possible without braking any rules. It’s the art of dancing in the grey area.

Rosberg talked about that in a recent interview. He said that it frustrated him how Lewis was always able to get away with moves like USA 2015. That’s because Lewis knew how to stay within the grey area. When Rosberg tried to be aggressive (Spa 2014), he ended up overstepping the mark completely.

Verstappen is even better than Hamilton at knowing how to balance the fine line between harsh racing and breaking the rules. The starts in Imola and Spain were a perfect example. Then when Hamilton tried to be aggressive in Silverstone, he ended up overstepping the mark completely and got a penalty.

Ironic how Verstappen is making Hamilton look like Rosberg.
And here we go again. The ONLY reason Verstappen got away with the start in Spain, was because Hamilton let him. If he acted the same as Max in Copse, the result would be the same as in Copse. Full stop. Now move on.
Go to 3:28



That’s what would have happened to Hamilton if he tried to turn in. By the way, Massa did not get any kind of penalty for that.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 -18

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El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:09 pm
Couple of titbits from that podcast with Hill, Pinkham and Clarkson.

Hamilton didn't know Verstappen had been taken to hospital until Pinkham told him in the interview pen after the race.
Leclerc and Ferrari had no idea why they were so good on the mediums, according to Leclerc.
He asked on the way into the pit and was told Max is fine. Dont know if this was the first time he asked or not. Its on his radio in I think the Palmer clip
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
Voltaire, or several other claimants.