2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[Shrieker]

How are you guys still arguing over most of this stuff hahahahaha

It's summer break!

But not for me !

I follow motogp & world superbikes too, and they have great racing and races, with stuff you can't see in formula 1 (like last lap, last corner passes), despite still being world championship level classes. Motorcycle racing is much more open to surprises as well, and another thing I like about it, is the fact that true talent is truly open to display.

[Wouter]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.
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It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.

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One can turn around his statement:

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Lewis is as good as they've been claiming he is.
Thus they feel the need to attack Max to justify their stance on Lewis.

This is what I see here all the time.

[Just_a_fan]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.
.

It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.

.
One can turn around his statement:

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Lewis is as good as they've been claiming he is.
Thus they feel the need to attack Max to justify their stance on Lewis.

This is what I see here all the time.

What I'm seeing is full on tribalism. Max fans attacking Lewis, Lewis fans defending him and vice versa. Little objective discussion about facts, although there's plenty of subjective stuff to make an argument against a driver.

The issue is that Lewis has been around at the top of the field for a long time and been subjected to attacks by those that dislike him. Max has been rising and so not so much of a target. HIs fans haven't had to defend him so much. Now both he and they are at the sharp edge of people being critical of every move. Some of them are uncomfortable in the limelight. Lewis's fans have had years of practice as he's had a target on his back for years now.

It's a passing on of the crown in some ways. The old moving toward retirement, the young picking up the batten and being the "man to beat". It's life in microcosm.

[Ryar]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.

Some people have Stanford degree in Psychology as specialization, which also requires defending Hamilton's reputation on this forum as part of Degree continuity criteria.

[wesley123]

I fixed it for you. No need to thank me, I know you will appreciate it

The FIA-official(s) who was present in the garage at all times, and I believe in the factory as well, would tell you otherwise

Actually, just the fact there were FIA-officials into McLaren box to ensure equal treatment proves the point. How many times in past 30 years have you seen FIA-officials into any box to ensure the team do not harm any of their drivers intentionally?

Obviously with the stewards into the pit McLaren didn´t do anything suspicious... but coincidentally in those GPs Alonso scored a lot more points than Hamilton

It doesn't really prove all that much, it doesn't directly correlate to one another. 2007 already was quite the weird year upon that point. With all the complaints coming from the McLaren camp(well, close to a 100% from Alonso, who literally blackmailed Dennis), the FIA decided to place an official in the garage at all times.

And for the "Alonso scored more" claim; No. Wrong;

[NathanOlder]

He's a Yank. I've been to the US. They have some great beaches.

They also have sharks, I've seen jaws. Give me the seaweed at Margate any day

Don't tell me you're from Margate?! Small world.

No, but I am from Kent.

[ringo]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.
.

It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.

.
One can turn around his statement:

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Lewis is as good as they've been claiming he is.
Thus they feel the need to attack Max to justify their stance on Lewis.

This is what I see here all the time.

UM... no. See year 2007. There has been no rookie on that level since. testing or no testing. Then max does not need to be attacked. I think Lewis fans have always maintained that Max is very talented, but just lacks the same level of experience at year 7 and this is nothing to be ashamed of. Their careers have been different. Max has been mostly in the redbull camp, and has only faced Perez as an outsider.

Max and Lewis at 130 entries. Lewis is up to 2013, no dominant Mercedes car as yet.

Driver: MV, LH
wins: 15, 20
podiums: 50, 54
poles: 8, 32
championships: 0, 1
fastest laps:14, 13

The result above is not to say who is better, but it's clear who has been through the most challenges and diverse situations in the same time span.
In that time Hamilton would have faced 2 DEFENDING champions (Alonso and Button), changed teams, fought for 3 championships (2007,2008, 2012). In all years he was never No.1 in the team, and had to race fairly against drivers who were put in place with intentions to destroy him. (Alonso, Button, Heiki, Rosberg #1 in Merc)

Hamilton does not have anything left to prove.

We are just enjoying the season really. It has been more exciting with red-bull having a really great car, and less tension because the rival is in another team. So far it has worked out nicely for Mercedes despite some blunders.

[jurinius]

It is quite remarkable how you know what other people think.

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One can turn around his statement:

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Lewis is as good as they've been claiming he is.
Thus they feel the need to attack Max to justify their stance on Lewis.

This is what I see here all the time.

... Max fans attacking Lewis, Lewis fans defending him and vice versa. ...

The funny thing here is can we turn this statement around like 'Lewis fans attacking Max, Max fans defending him and vice versa'.

Who is defending and who is attacking, it depends of many factors

The new Discovery Channel show about "Alonso being a tactical altruist hero" is what I respect the most in this thread. I wonder how many episodes of the show we will have this season. Anyway it is admirable even Ocon is a believer, why don't we.

[RZS10]

(the 'vice versa' implied that already)

[jurinius]

(the 'vice versa' implied that already)

Thanks got it, but u see using "vice versa" is not explicit as writting that. anyway I am sure u got the point.

[Kingshark]

Actually, I think it's that deep down some people are starting to question if Max is as good as they've been claiming he is. Thus they feel the need to attack Lewis to justify their stance on Max.

There’s some serious deflection going on here. After Bahrain, many were convinced that Hamilton’s superior maturity would win him the title. That is why, when Hamilton is the one making the major mistakes, a million excuses need to be made instead of just accepting that Lewis is a flawed driver (which does not mean bad).

For years we've heard if he had a car that was even a few tenths slower he would run away with the championship or some other nonsense. Now that he a car that's there or there abouts, he's not running away with it.

Who said this? Please provide some quotes.

As much as people like to complain about Lewis's luck and Max's bad luck, Max has also made several strategic mistakes this season. He's had several issues with track limits, and his typical issue of being overly aggressive when he shouldn't.

Max is not the one who drove into a wall by himself, nor is he the one who switched his own brakes off and lost the easiest 25 points imaginable. The biggest mistakes this season have been made by Hamilton. The fact that Lewis fans keep harping on about Max’s alleged “mistake” at Silverstone as some kind of counter-argument is only further proof of that. If Max actually made serious mistakes this year, you wouldn’t feel the need to bring up an incident where Lewis was majority to blame by verdict of the stewards.

[Kingshark]

Maybe. A more aggressive Hamilton vs Alonso could have easily yielded a DNF and zero points. You may prefer to bash Hamilton for not “disposing” an inferior and slower Alonso, but the risk vs award balance that Hamilton is going for is precisely why he is leading the championship vs Verstappen.

When was the last time Alonso took another driver out during a wheel-to-wheel due? Alonso is a master of wheel-to-wheel racing, but he is not dirty or clumsy. Your fear that Hamilton could have been taken out is largely misplaced. He was racing Alonso, not Maldonado.

In my book, Verstappens unlucky moments of Baku & Hungary are easily matched by Hamiltons magic button error in Baku and stratetic element in Hungary too - a race he should have easily won without having to battle Alonso in the first place.

Baku was not unlucky, it was a clear mistake from Hamilton which cost him the easiest 25 points imaginable.

The reason why Verstappen is rated above Hamilton by every magazine which does driver ratings (AMUS, Autosport, TheRace, Sky) is because they recognize that Hamilton’s points losses this season have largely been his own doing, while Verstappen’s point losses have mainly been because of bad luck.

[ringo]

Dear Kingshark,

The season is not over. Sit back, relax and watch. You will understand when it is over.

Regards,

[Wouter]

Dear Kingshark,

The season is not over. Sit back, relax and watch. You will understand when it is over.

Regards,

Dear Ringo,

The season is not over. Sit back, relax and watch. You will understand when it is over.

Regards,

Wouter

[dans79]

Who said this? Please provide some quotes.

The form has a search box, use it!

The fact that Lewis fans keep harping on about Max’s alleged “mistake” at Silverstone as some kind of counter-argument is only further proof of that. If Max actually made serious mistakes this year, you wouldn’t feel the need to bring up an incident where Lewis was majority to blame by verdict of the stewards.

You can spin it any way you want, if Max had more experience and patience, he wouldn't have put himself in that position to start with.

One of the key things that makes people a champion, is knowing when to take risks and when to not.

Keke Rosberg is a good example, he only won one race, but he finished a lot more races than his competition did, and that's what ultimately matters when it comes to winning a championship.