2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Manoah2u wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 21:42
Spoke a few Ferrari F1 team members today as i ran into them @ the airport ( Schiphol ).
Apparently, they are not at all fond of the coming sprint race and have a very hard head in their home GP, and even should have had better results @ Zandvoort. It wasn't just one of them, almost all of them had a very 'pessimistic' attitude.

A total contrast to the Alpine guys, whom were also there, and were in a much more festive and talkative state, and are actually looking forward to Monza, and were actually looking forward to the sprint race claiming it'll get them further up than normal Qually would do.

So, take from that what you will.
The Renault was pretty good in high speed races, I'm expecting the Alpine to look good at Monza.
Honda!

pb6797
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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As far as Bottas not be replaceable goes - if he stopped co-operating then I am sure they could promote George early (they made a temporary switch last year after all, which must have been even more hassle?). Williams are pretty secure in 8th place now, so they could run one of their reserve drivers - I think Jack Aitken is still recovering but they could get a lot of positive PR by running Jamie Chadwick.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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dren wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 18:34
Manoah2u wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 21:42
Spoke a few Ferrari F1 team members today as i ran into them @ the airport ( Schiphol ).
Apparently, they are not at all fond of the coming sprint race and have a very hard head in their home GP, and even should have had better results @ Zandvoort. It wasn't just one of them, almost all of them had a very 'pessimistic' attitude.

A total contrast to the Alpine guys, whom were also there, and were in a much more festive and talkative state, and are actually looking forward to Monza, and were actually looking forward to the sprint race claiming it'll get them further up than normal Qually would do.

So, take from that what you will.
The Renault was pretty good in high speed races, I'm expecting the Alpine to look good at Monza.
Alonso win would be majestic

not probable, but majestic.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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hollus
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Monza, gentlemen. There is already a thread for the Dutch GP.
15 or so posts from the last hours that clearly belonged there are now on topic... moved over there.
Rivals, not enemies.

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codetower
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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hollus wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 20:34
Monza, gentlemen. There is already a thread for the Dutch GP.
15 or so posts from the last hours that clearly belonged there are now on topic... moved over there.
#-o My apologies... Rookie mistake. I lost track of the thread I was in.

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hollus
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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No problem! The posts have been moved, not deleted. It is a blurry line quite often.
Rivals, not enemies.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Juzh wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 10:34
zibby43 wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 04:27
And your point is? The RW is a very inefficient (i.e., draggy) form of downforce. The last thing I’d want to do at Monza is run any more RW than I absolutely have to.

Accordingly, the 2020 RW looks like a toothpick (on pole by 8 tenths).

2019 is the only wing that maybe looks a bit larger than what I would typically expect at Monza, but that’s the car that required downforce at all costs to work as a consequence of the FW changes.

Merc were running more wing everywhere that year.

Ferrari were on pole in 2019, also. That’s when they had the thirsty PU.
Dude, red bull ran toothpick wings and was still always slower on straights than mercedes powered cars. Only on the very top end were they starting to catch up with their zero drag approach. These very low wings quite obviously hurt them in corners. If you can't understand this then not much else to say.

Simply, if you have more power you can bolt on more wing because engine will compensate, and that's what mercedes and their customers did over the years.
Hmm Merc were faster on the straights? Wouldn’t have anything to do with the RB PU being inferior to the Merc unit in past years? Whether Renault or Honda?

No, no. I’m sure it was exclusively down to rear wing levels **at Monza** (which is the only circuit I’m discussing).

What did I say in my previous post that you could possibly disagree with?

The lone point I was trying to make was that Merc has never run tremendously more RW/downforce (relative to themselves at other circuits or relative to their competitors) at Monza.

I readily acknowledged they carried more downforce in 2019. But, ironically, that year, they did so DESPITE the PU being inferior to the Ferrari unit.

The Merc been arguably the most aerodynamically efficient car on the grid every single year except maybe 1, which is one of the reasons they don’t have to carry a stupid RW level in Monza.

DESPITE the fact that the PU can handle it. There’s simply no reason to, at **Monza** . . .

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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zibby43 wrote:
08 Sep 2021, 05:41
DESPITE the fact that the PU can handle it. There’s simply no reason to, at **Monza** . . .
We live in an age of....... PIRELLI. The more downforce, if you could afford it, the more happier PIRELLI. Who could have afforded to run more wing?

Monza, 2018.
Image

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/pirel ... 4/5295034/
The combination of that, plus being trapped behind Valtteri Bottas, which meant his car was losing downforce and sliding more, ultimately triggered the blistering problems that proved so costly.
Monza, doesn't necessarily mean, drop downforce, especially if you can afford it. It's a desperate choice teams make to not load it for the fear of being eaten alive on the straights, not because, they like it. Yeah, there IS a reason.
Hakuna Matata!

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Some downforce is good for a fast exit out of parabolica and stability under braking.

basti313
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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NL_Fer wrote:
08 Sep 2021, 07:32
Some downforce is good for a fast exit out of parabolica and stability under braking.
Yes. And also in the Lesmos you lose too much if you not have a good balanced car with a bit of grip.
Monza is a track that allows for many configurations.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Mogster
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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pb6797 wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 18:58
As far as Bottas not be replaceable goes - if he stopped co-operating then I am sure they could promote George early (they made a temporary switch last year after all, which must have been even more hassle?). Williams are pretty secure in 8th place now, so they could run one of their reserve drivers - I think Jack Aitken is still recovering but they could get a lot of positive PR by running Jamie Chadwick.
They’d run Pietro Fittipaldi again if they needed to. Chadwick doesn’t have any SL points and struggled driving for Prema in Euro F3 last year.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Ryar wrote:
08 Sep 2021, 06:38

Monza, doesn't necessarily mean, drop downforce, especially if you can afford it. It's a desperate choice teams make to not load it for the fear of being eaten alive on the straights, not because, they like it. Yeah, there IS a reason.
Monza means run as much downforce (and hence drag) as you can and still get a clean air top speed of c.340kph. It's finding the right compromise between lap time and top speed that makes it tricky.

All circuits have a balance between downforce (and hence drag) and straight line top speed. In Monza it's heavily tipped towards top speed, and Monaco it's entirely downforce.

A car like the Red Bull, which manages to make plenty of downforce from the floor, will be able to get away with less rear wing and hence less drag. The Mercedes will likely need a touch more rear wing and hence drag. It should give a good indication of the relative performance of the PU as if they are similar clean air top speeds then the Merc PU is slightly better. If the Red Bull is slightly faster then the PUs are basically the same (ceteris paribus, of course).
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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InsaneX_Badger
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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Think the finishing order is going to be the same as Zandvoort. Ver, Ham, Bot.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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InsaneX_Badger wrote:
08 Sep 2021, 11:50
Think the finishing order is going to be the same as Zandvoort. Ver, Ham, Bot.
If I were a betting man, that's where I'd put my money.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

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pb6797 wrote:
07 Sep 2021, 18:58
As far as Bottas not be replaceable goes - if he stopped co-operating then I am sure they could promote George early (they made a temporary switch last year after all, which must have been even more hassle?). Williams are pretty secure in 8th place now, so they could run one of their reserve drivers - I think Jack Aitken is still recovering but they could get a lot of positive PR by running Jamie Chadwick.
Interesting idea. Would be novel if they ran Chadwick, and whatever the result it would be able to be spun. Does she have enough SL points?

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