Australian GP 2008

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Conceptual wrote: I am very happy with the loss of TC, as it made the good drivers shine.

Chris
I disagree. It made the crappy drivers glaringly obvious. It also ruined quite a few others overall race by them being so crappy without TC. Like Massa. He's absolutely worthless without it and right or wrong he ruined DCs race. He should have been further up and not been racing with the likes of DC in a FERRARI for cripes sake!

I think Bourdais did well because of all the retirements. Not because he's just that good. Look at Alonso. Do you honestly think Fisi would have wrung that much from that car? I highly doubt it.

Piquet. Go. Home.

And McLaren are miles ahead because of the close relationship of the designers of the common ECU. It's so blantantly obvious, yet the press is trying to shoo everyone away from that fact.

Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Ray wrote:
Conceptual wrote: I am very happy with the loss of TC, as it made the good drivers shine.

Chris
I disagree. It made the crappy drivers glaringly obvious. It also ruined quite a few others overall race by them being so crappy without TC. Like Massa. He's absolutely worthless without it and right or wrong he ruined DCs race. He should have been further up and not been racing with the likes of DC in a FERRARI for cripes sake!

I think Bourdais did well because of all the retirements. Not because he's just that good. Look at Alonso. Do you honestly think Fisi would have wrung that much from that car? I highly doubt it.

Piquet. Go. Home.

And McLaren are miles ahead because of the close relationship of the designers of the common ECU. It's so blantantly obvious, yet the press is trying to shoo everyone away from that fact.
Well, the crappy drivers did become obvious, but Heidfeld as well as Alonso looked VERY good without TC. Rememeber, passing is very low in F1 due to the aero, not TC, so to say that someone only moved up because of retirements is like saying that they only moved up because their car is 2 seconds a lap quicker. Bourdais was on a new track, with last years car (that was NOT designed to run without TC, with a Ferrari engine that I am sure are the lowest performers on the dyno because I also sure that Ferrari keeps the best ones for themselves), in a high pressure debut and did fantastic. He may have landed a podium had he not retired.

And yes, it is glaringly obvious that McLaren have the inside track on the SECU due to the fact that THEY designed it, and have those engineers within shouting distance of the car engineers. I would REALLY like to see McLaren provide details on what "car" was used as the test-bed of that project. I doubt that they bought a Ferrari to do that development work.

Anyways, Hamilton was very consistant, and Heikki made Kimi blink a few times as well.

It looks like the early advantage goes to McLaren for obvious reasons, I just hope that the teams are able to overcome that disadvantage ASAP, since while those teams have to devote MORE development time to it, Mclaren has the original engineering team dealing with it, while their race team is free to devote to in-season car development.

Malaysia is going to be more of the same I fear. Lets just hope that during the break before the Euro season some of the other teams can fix some problems.

Does anyone know for sure how many retirements were down to SECU related problems? I think those teams are going to lodge a complaint with Whiting, and I think that they would be fully justified.

Chris

axle
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Ray wrote:
Conceptual wrote: I am very happy with the loss of TC, as it made the good drivers shine.

Chris
I disagree. It made the crappy drivers glaringly obvious. It also ruined quite a few others overall race by them being so crappy without TC. Like Massa. He's absolutely worthless without it and right or wrong he ruined DCs race. He should have been further up and not been racing with the likes of DC in a FERRARI for cripes sake!

I think Bourdais did well because of all the retirements. Not because he's just that good. Look at Alonso. Do you honestly think Fisi would have wrung that much from that car? I highly doubt it.

Piquet. Go. Home.

And McLaren are miles ahead because of the close relationship of the designers of the common ECU. It's so blantantly obvious, yet the press is trying to shoo everyone away from that fact.
Sorry, you'd like TC back to make the less talented drivers *look* better? WTF? I'd rather the cream rose to the top and the over-rated were binned...Without TC is best, bet Kimi is glad they got to keep Anti-Stall! I honestly can't see ANY downside to making the drivers, drive. If some are cr@p/out of their depth then maybe they should drive elsewhere?!

As for the McLaren ECU...oh please, all the teams knew the specs etc before they got the unit, which was after the FIA technicians had ratified it. The only "advantage" McLaren had was that is fitted their existing looms and positioning (I expect, unconfirmed but logical)...and do you really think that would hamper all the other teams for long? Nope. The ECU is basic, no loopholes as the FIA get the datalogs. The secret to McLarens' percieved advantage atm is much more likely to be in the diff and suspension setup, not the ECU. Mapping is mapping and every team has a genius at work mapping the engines....

Ferrari will be back in Sepang - new engines all round - they won't have 2 rubbish quali sessions in a row.

Massa for all his faults on the day wasn't fully at fault for the crash with DC, DC didn't pay attention. I'd expect the frankly stupid positioning of his mirrors to have been a contributing factor...now that's something the FIA should ban! Massa/DC racing accident. Massa's front wheel was in front of DC's rear. DC should have yielded.
- Axle

axle
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Does anyone know for sure how many retirements were down to SECU related problems? I think those teams are going to lodge a complaint with Whiting, and I think that they would be fully justified.

Chris
None surely. Come on, they've been testing day in day out with it for months...

let me guess at what you're suggesting, the code looks like...
IF Engine = Ferrari
Goto FAIL MODE.
Last edited by axle on 16 Mar 2008, 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
- Axle

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Conceptual wrote:
Well, the crappy drivers did become obvious, but Heidfeld as well as Alonso looked VERY good without TC. Rememeber, passing is very low in F1 due to the aero, not TC, so to say that someone only moved up because of retirements is like saying that they only moved up because their car is 2 seconds a lap quicker. Bourdais was on a new track, with last years car (that was NOT designed to run without TC, with a Ferrari engine that I am sure are the lowest performers on the dyno because I also sure that Ferrari keeps the best ones for themselves), in a high pressure debut and did fantastic. He may have landed a podium had he not retired.
Sorry. I didn't mean I disagreed totally. Yes, the lack of TC brought the cream to the top. But I think it showed who was worse rather than who was better.

I do however disagree completely with you thoughts on Bourdais. :D Yeah, he done good. But I highly doubt that if Red Bull, Ferrari AND Toyota had been around at the finish, Bourdais would have held the same position. Not to mention his teammate still in the race. And it is very reasonable to say that he finished there only because of retirements. It's happened alot before in the past, and I don't see how it doesn't/can't apply here. I'm not suggesting he isn't good, his four ChampCar titles prove that. I just don't think he would have been in the same finishing position had half the field not retired.

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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axle wrote:
None surely. Come on, they've been testing day in day out with it for months...

let me guess at what you're suggesting, the code looks like...

IF Driver = That traitor Kimi
Goto FAIL MODE.
I think that's more like it :lol:

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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Haven't seen a great opening race since the 2005 Australian Grand Prix. I hope Toyota and Williams become a top five constructor by the end of the year, along w/ Renault.

Surprised by Barichello's pace, considering how old he is. I hope it's a good sign for Honda. And speaking about old, DC needs to retire. He blamed Massa for their incident while he pulled the same crap on Wurz last year.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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Rob W
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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Ray wrote:Everyone loves the fact DC and Webber have used foul language to the press about something, but God forbid if Scott Speed does.
There is a big difference between DC and Speed. DC is a veteran with 13 wins, a dozen poles, a legendary F1 expert and all-round funny guy. Speed was a rookie who'd achieved little and who had a foul mouth. Scotts are also known for being cheeky, straight-shooters also so he probably gets a bit more leeway - especially because of the humour value in what he often says.

(Not sure how Webber gets away with it tho)

R

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Rob W
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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joseff wrote:I heard something like "I'm going to kick the sh*t outta the little..."
It was something like:
" I screwed up last year when I tried a speculative move on Alex, but I took full responsibility for it and I would expect Felipe to do the same today. If he doesn't then I will kick the sh*t out of the little bastard. ..."
Or something to that effect.

Coulthard = F1 comedy :lol:

R

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Steven
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Ray wrote:...
Piquet. Go. Home.

And McLaren are miles ahead because of the close relationship of the designers of the common ECU. It's so blantantly obvious, yet the press is trying to shoo everyone away from that fact.
Two points I totally disagree with.

First of all, it was Piquet's first race, and Kovalainen last year already proved it's not an easy track to start your career in. Furthermore, Piquet's Renault was hit during the start and was hard to drive as of that moment. He therefore was unable to keep a decent pace. Give the guy a break, he'll improve and has the team behind him.

As for McLaren being miles ahead, Ferrari are pretty well on the pace too but are apparently still figuring out how to keep their engines reliable with the ECU.
I don't expect any McLaren advantage to last for more than a 4 races (at least I hope so).

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checkered
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Race analysis

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Well, for most teams

and drivers, AusGP was a complete amateur hour. As usual. To the degree it wasn't even funny anymore, pole equals win and the rest of the field is in the race to find the most idiotic/imaginative reason to retire. Race incidents, mechanical failures, overheating batteries, reckless driving, disqualification, you name it. Engine failures are almost inexcusable at a time when there's been every opportunity to hone out any imperfections. If I really wanted to see this, I'd go to see a demolition derby.

But enough of the negative; on the positive side, Hamilton is obviously still learning more of his trade, something that must be a cause for worry as far as anyone else is concerned. And, beyond talent, the McLaren driver development program must be the most impressive around - if we all got that amount of performance advice and healthcare, the World would be a happy place indeed. Notably Kovalainen had qualified well significantly heavier and also managed the fastest lap to his name too, so McLaren would seem to be all set as far as drivers are concerned. Furthermore, Heikki is intelligent, consistent and resolute enough to manage a demanding position, both publicly and privately.

Williams did an impressive job - and they have a promising development programme planned for the season. The overall impressive finish (and reliability!) wasn't a fluke at all, very nearly matching BMW's pace ... it'll be interesting to see that rivalry developing as both cars are currently pretty temperamental, with a very limited competitive window. As a sidenote, it's incredibly just how unnotable Nick Heidfeld is, even driving a great race. Someone should study him for advances in stealth technology.

What else ... well, going out on a limb, "le Seb" Bourdais richly deserved points in his first F1 race. That he managed to produce a measured, seasoned performance at this stage suggests that he will be a fixture of this scene for a long time to come and could well end up in a top team yet. Toyota showed promise, at long last, despite the mayhem and TF108 developing teething trouble at an inopportune moment. Here's hoping that Malaysia will produce close but cleaner (and tactically more mature) racing.

Ps. Tomba, I agree. Furthermore, Piquet has demonstrated a somewhat slower learning curve in previous classes, but always managed in the end. The Renault environment (for all the corporate pressure to always be in the top three teams and Briatore's sometimes short fuse) might not be the best possible for him at the moment though. As for Ferrari's engines ... **** ****! New SECU or not. Apparently, going into the race they already knew their chances of surviving weren't all that great.

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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Rob W wrote:
Ray wrote:Everyone loves the fact DC and Webber have used foul language to the press about something, but God forbid if Scott Speed does.
There is a big difference between DC and Speed. DC is a veteran with 13 wins, a dozen poles, a legendary F1 expert and all-round funny guy. Speed was a rookie who'd achieved little and who had a foul mouth. Scotts are also known for being cheeky, straight-shooters also so he probably gets a bit more leeway - especially because of the humour value in what he often says.

(Not sure how Webber gets away with it tho)

R
Profanity is profanity. Especially when insinuating physical violence on someone. Scott called bullshit on the yellow flag situation and everyone acted liked he called DCs mom a bad name. Trashed him for it in the press. That's not right. You can't tailor the punishment to the criminal, no matter the context.

And it's quite hypocritical of DC to say something like that. He did the same bonehead move, but did admit it. He has no right to DEMAND someone apologize for something he himself did. It seems a habit of his to criticize others for things he himself does.

I like DC. Alot. So don't kill me please! :lol: :lol:

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checkered
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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I kinda like(-d, as in F1 terms) Scott

Speed, so help me ... he didn't always seem to be conscious of the level of commitment needed in F1, even in what clearly was a 2nd tier team at that moment. But for me that was just as well. In the end, few people appreciated the kinds of demands the switch from the US placed on the guy. His team management was notoriously incompatible with the strengths Scott had to offer. I've heard (and used) a colourful enough range of profanities to not be upset about hearing those. I might be upset about the context, but not the actual words. Said it before, but it bears repeating - the drivers can go ahead and moon the cameras in the press conference as far as I'm concerned (though I'd rather not have to witness that) as long as they do their talking behind the wheel. Coulthard, well, he was obviously venting but there's a time and a place for that. Preferrably when there's no-one around and in the presence of some inanimate objects suitable of taking some punishment.

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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If anybody deserves some slack, it's Scott. For gods sake the guy had a disease that threatened to kill him and he said screw that I'm going racing. He hasn't been gifted anything.

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Ray
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Re: [GP Australia 2008] Predictions

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After review of the incident between DC and Massa, DC caused the whole thing. Massa had his ass covered completely. The only way Massa wasn't going to pass him is if he ran into him, which he duly did. He literally has no defense. Massa was cut off way before he had time to react. DC needs to shut his mouth about this one. He's wrong.

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