Hungarian GP 2008

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
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guy_smiley
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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MattF1 wrote:
bar555 wrote:3 teams , Torro Rosso (Bourdais) , Honda (Barrichello) & Williams (Nakajima) had a pit stop fire incident :!: :!: :!: Luckily none of the drivers faced a serious threat .


I will try to find some photos from all 3 incidents
It happened to Bourdais twice.
And although there was no fire, Glock had trouble with his fuel nozzle and they had to switch to the backup...
JamesS wrote:I think today Lewis did a good job with the super soft. He went further than anyone on that compound and was able to, at the very least, not chew them up to the extent his lap times suffered horrendously.
Actually, Coulthard went longer on the super softs than anyone else in his first stint. You say Lewis wasn't too slow for the amount of time he was on the SS tyres, but to me that sounds like a bit of an excuse: both Kimi and Lewis--and every other driver--have the same amount of 'golden laps' on those tyres, and then every driver goes through the same graining period. After the graining, the tyres clean up and remain stable after that no matter how long you run--it's the same for every driver. With that in mind, Kimi was setting fastest lap after fastest lap after fastest lap well after the 'golden' period (I think his fastest laps were about 8-9-10 laps after his pit stop), and frankly Lewis couldn't do that during that same tyre stage.
Badmon wrote: I think Ferrari is really falling off
Objectively it's way too hard to say. Starting last year, the balance of power shifted moreso from track to track than ever before, and the same is true this year. Thus, looking at a small sample of 2 or 3 races is pointless. As Heikki said in the press conference, Ferrari and McLaren are so close that it just depends on who gets it EXACTLY right and who doesnt from race to race. But again the track makes a difference too--Italy 2007 was absolute McLaren dominance while Belgium 2007, the very next race mind you, was total Ferrari dominance. In terms of pace today Massa was untouchable, and Raikkonen set the fastest lap late in the race, so one can't say "they have fallen off" in that sense. Personally, I have my reasons to believe Ferrari will be very strong in the remainder of the season. Anyway, if Ferrari have a weakness, I think it is having 2 drivers fighting for the title instead of one like McLaren.
Smiles all 'round!

Badmon
Badmon
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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guy_smiley wrote:
Badmon wrote: I think Ferrari is really falling off
Anyway, if Ferrari have a weakness, I think it is having 2 drivers fighting for the title instead of one like McLaren.
[/quote]
That is a brillant way of putting it, but I believe that Massa pushed to hard yesterday. I feel that Mclaren has leaped frog Ferrari as far as development in these past couple of weeks. Just my opinion. :D

donskar
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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A few observations:

Ferrari needs to improve their engine's reliability, as allowed by the regs. If they should "accidentally" gain 10 HP, all the better. From what I saw on SpeedTV, Alonso's Renault did not seem down on power compared to Kimi.

Many (me included) thought Kimi would retire after winning two championships. Looks like we missed by one. He still has a good chance to repeat, but at this point, he seems lackluster and disinterested. (You get no points for fastest lap.)

Massa had a great start and drove very well. His hard luck could make him stronger. Certainly he showed he can pass LH and match or beat LH's pace. (Yes, I know there are always many factors involved, but what counts is what Massa believes after the race.)

As an ardent Tifosi, I am anti-McLaren, but it is still good to see a new face in the winner's circle. Good for Heikki K.

Looks like we could have a "best-of-the-rest" championship fight fought by BMW, Toyota, and Renault. And Honda continues to embarrass.

The tracks may be quiet, but I think the work shops and wind tunnels will be busy places these next couple weeks.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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vyselegend
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Belatti wrote:
vyselegend wrote: PS: Anybody knows what happened to Alonso on his out lap with supersofts? He was 4 sec up on Raikonen (following the Finn's error) while he pitted, and when Raikonen exited the pits at his turn the next lap he had a 2 sec gap! I know the Ferrari is faster, but come on! not 6 sec a lap... TV only showed Nakajima having a contact with Sutil, but something must have happen to Fernando.
He was 4 sec up on Raikonen following the Finn's error at the beginning of that lap, he pitted with 3 seconds up as Raikkonen pushed hard. Kimis´ pitstop was 5secs vs. Alonsos´ 7 secs.
So that means Kimi was 2 secs faster (with a light car) than Fernando with a heavy one and cold tires.
Thank you Belatti for answearing my question. I think you're right, I had overlooked the difference in respective pit stop duration, so I was not understanding how Fernando could have lost so much time on track without making a real mistake.

Now, sorry if I seem to trash Bourdais again (which is not my will), but he claims now that he had to stop for his crew to clean his visor, because he had foam inside his helmet. He says that like an explaination for his unability to correct the problem with a tear-off. But then, what about raising your visor Mr Bourdais? Certainly some fresh air wouldn't do any bad...

I think he's not bad, but we don't need another Fisi in F1, and Bourdais is really taking the same kind of path, always finding excuses for having a bad race rather than focusing intensively like Vettel, to the risk of being an anonymous heroe who finishes 12th, but at least able to take his part of the cake if an opportunity arises. I don't understand why americans made him a star. If F1 people really wanted a french driver, they should have kept Montagny. Both are skilled, but Montagny was fast! If he doesn't improves untill the end of the year, I think Buemi should have his chance. It may seems harsh but that's the way Torro Rosso is treating drivers, and although controvertial this policy is the one which brung Vettel to them. Sorry for the little rant... I'm just tired of hearing french commentators makes him a star while he doesn't deserves it.

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Moanlower
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Here's a list of the laptimes during the race.

http://www.fia.com/hungarygp/documents/ ... alysis.pdf

Kimi 1:21.195
Felipe 1:21.355
Lewis 1:21.493
Nelson 1:21.537
Jarno 1:21.638
Timo 1:21.671
Heikki 1:21.753
Fernandoh 1:21.793
Robert 1:21.941


Alonso's in lap 2nd pitstop 1:24.326
out lap 1:47.032

Kimi's in lap 2nd pitstop 1:23.551 = - 0.775 sec
out lap 1:43.921 = - 3.111 sec
Losers focus on winners, winners focus on winning.

Miguel
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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It seems that, since Canada, Nelson is starting to show some glimpse of talent. He isn't yet able to put a stunning lap in qualy (although he is getting close) but his race pace is coming to grips. He seems to have understood that not graining the tires on the first laps is crucial for the Renault, and that seems to pay off. He had a second stint that was essentially as fast as Alonso's and even though he was somewhat flattered by the 4 laps Alonso spent behind a fully-loaded Massa, it is clear that he's gaining confidence by seeing he isn't that far off Alonso.

BTW: I've heard that Piquet is using torque paddles similar to those in the Mac, while Alonso is still using the wheel knobs. Does anybody have further info?

EDIT: That confirms my view that Alonso's outlap was bloody mediocre
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mx_tifoso
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Does anyone know whether this was the first or second GP for Felipe Massa´s engine. Thank you in advance.

I suspect that it was the second GP for it, since Massa mentioned in an interview that he reduced the RPM´s of his engine right after Hamiltons puncture. Surely an engine wouldn´t fail in its first GP, at least not that easily. But I´m still curious though.
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Downforce
Downforce
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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& mx_tifosi
That was second GP for Massa's engine.

Source: http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pr ... Report.pdf

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vyselegend
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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I come back from an excursion on the Renault fansite, where I have found some nice feats. Credits to their users for the links.


Best sector times per driver (pay close attention to Toyota's and Renault's performance):

:arrow: http://www.fia.com/hungarygp/documents/ ... _Times.pdf


It's incredible how Toyota were eating everyone in sector 3, without seeming to have compromised other sectors.

And look at this, every race laps times, with intervals, for everyone!(Go to Hungary, then "head to head", then select drivers you want for times, and for just intervals go to "lap by lap"). This is an incredibly good site! =D> It is particulary interesting to study BMW's stint, as if you only rely on best lap times provided by official site they don't seem to be that slow and you don't understand well how they had such a bad result, but seing every laps compared to the competition underlines their pace struggle.

:arrow: http://www.f1matrix.it/gp_2008_eng/index.html

timbo
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Does anyone know of any reliable info onwhat's happened with fuel rigs? I felt that FIA would want to investigate accidents but everything seems quiet, I don't understand this...

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Also - any idea if Massa's engine blow will lead to a grid demotion in Valencia, or does he still have his "joker" to play to avoid the grid penalty?
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johny
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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If you blow your engine during a race the DNF is enough penalty.

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mx_tifoso
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Exactly, meaning that if an engine has only run one complete GP, and is swapped out for a new unit the driver will be penalized. Otherwise if it fails to complete the full race distance it can be changed without penalty, regardless of the number of GP's run.

For everyone to know, Kimi Raikkonen will use the same engine at the European GP in 3 weeks time, and Felipe Massa will use a brand new unit (without penalty).

I haven't even commented on the race this past weekend, but it's mainly due to the fact that I wasn't able to watch it. But I feel terribly sorry for Massa, he has repeated his dissapointment many times over. But as they have said, it is a part of racing and has to be dealt with.
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scarbs
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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Thats correct... Engine penalties are for pre race failures or precautionary engine changes. Thus he will have an engine on its second race for Spa and a new one for Monza, not such a bad situation.

Raikkonens problem was the rear suspension so his gearbox is safe for the next race with no penalties incurred. I heard that Kimi's failure was the Inerter sticking, a similar fault to Monza last year. This is why Domenicali mentioned just bring the car home, shortly befores Massa's conrod failed.

Belatti
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Re: Hungary Grand Prix 2008

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vyselegend wrote: Now, sorry if I seem to trash Bourdais again (which is not my will), but he claims now that he had to stop for his crew to clean his visor, because he had foam inside his helmet.
I completely understand you men! I know what is to be waiting a countrymen F1 driver to suceed and see him sucking badly. I had faith in Tuero and he got tired of Argentine press trashing him, lack of character I say. I had faith in Fontana and they never gave him a proper chance. I have never had faith in Mazzacane and can´t understand how did he get there. I have never had faith in Lopez and he came back here with a F.Nissan title, a GP2 victory and Kovalainen in F1...

I had faith in Bourdais, but now I think just like you. Hamilton raced and won Silverstone with a visor full of steam. I saw him opening and whipping his visor in the straights. Sebastien can´t complain cause of that. He has to be prepared to handle inconveniences. A champion has to be prepared always.

As a note, I also believe Indy/CART driving level is inferior to F1. Any average F1 driver can be champion there. Rarely a Indy/CART driver can suceed in F1, Villeveuve and Montoya the only exceptions.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

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