Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

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andrew
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:27 pm

To finish first, first you have to finish - very true words indeed.

lebesset
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:46 pm

poleman, there is an old saying ...there are none so blind as those that will not see

anyone who still thinks this is other than webber's avoidable accident after seeing your picture is blind ; he has clearly already lost the place and equally clearly can avoid the accident with no problem at all , he is even going slower than hamilton at this point if you look at an action replay
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Giblet
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:39 pm

He still however, had the option to try to out-brake lewis for the corner, and if he was going in fact slower, he had a chance to brake later possibly.

This is why I also consider it a racing incident.

We would only be blind if that picture, and not the entire situation as a whole, was the only thing used to make a decision.

I myself had some things wrong about this incident from my initial viewing, but I still can't see it as 100% MW.

No matter what, who is at fault, passing is risky business in formula 1 and you need to pick your battles properly. Maybe passing Webber while he is on the inside of a corner is not the best thing to be trying.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

marcush.
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:58 pm

Webber ...I seem to remember only the mishaps and wrongly judged moves this year
it always seems to be about squeezing or making contact.
maybe I´m wrong but from were he was coming there was no option to challenge hamilton for position anymore.
He could have tried to go very tight in that corner but was way too fast to do so
And Hamilton was just no ways half or whatever guilty in this ,maybe apart from
offering him his unprotected inside.
As a result I´m sure Webbo cannot hope for any gifts from Hamilton.
Sad really as Hamilton is the real threat to webbos WC aspirations in my view.

andrew
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:02 pm

Giblet wrote:He still however, had the option to try to out-brake lewis for the corner, and if he was going in fact slower, he had a chance to brake later possibly.

This is why I also consider it a racing incident.

We would only be blind if that picture, and not the entire situation as a whole, was the only thing used to make a decision.

I myself had some things wrong about this incident from my initial viewing, but I still can't see it as 100% MW.

No matter what, who is at fault, passing is risky business in formula 1 and you need to pick your battles properly. Maybe passing Webber while he is on the inside of a corner is not the best thing to be trying.
Completely agree. On one hand Webber should have conceded, on the other Hamilton shouldn't have turned in so quickly (did he expect Webber to disappear?) but they were racing - accidents happen. No matter which way anyone cuts it, to me this will always be a racing incident.

aral
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay Street Circuit

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:08 pm

WilliamsF1 wrote:
Poleman wrote: Image





Image shows Hamilton ahead, it also shows the line that Webber took into the corner is non-existant.
The red line is useless due to the view from the camera which is not in direct line with the cars. Now look at the PIP in the other photo shown. The poster says, remove the airbox..., but again due to the lens on the camera, i would imagine that Webbers front wheel was just level with Hamiltons rear. The PIP confirms this!
Hamilton was NEVER 1.5 lengths ahead, as claimed. He was NEVER fully ahead.

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ringo
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:21 pm

Terrible3 wrote:To be honest I think JB pairing with LH in my eyes has made me appreciate his driving more. For me LH is a measuring stick of driver performance, as is Alonso. Last year JB made it look easy early on dominating, for the most part, the early races of the season. He then struggled to make it back onto the top step of the podium for the rest of the season once the other teams had for the most part equal machinery. To me this lowers the value of him as it seems he was only shining due to the car. This year despite not being as statistically as good, I value him higher. Sure he is slower than LH but it seems to be in the ballpark, and even if he is just a bit off that still means that he is bloody quick. Additionally he has made two excellent calls when it comes to pit strategy, perhaps blind luck but still critical. Sure he wont drive like a bat out of hell but at least he is bringing the car home most of the time. Points are points at the end of the day and JB keeps picking them up.
Well my rating of him has not changed. 2004 to me was his best year. He is ok in terms of speed but he's not really fast like say a Alonso or Heiki. Judging by who finishes ahead in the 14 races as well, he's not really a chanenge to Hamilton like say Alonso in 2007. What i appreciate from him though, is his patience and that he takes a bird's eye view of the race and season.
However it's not enough to win this year's championship.
0.2 to 0.5s is not close in terms of pace. But i agree that he is in the ball park and very solid for collecting points.
For Sure!!

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ringo
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay Street Circuit

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:51 pm

gilgen wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:
Poleman wrote: Image





Image shows Hamilton ahead, it also shows the line that Webber took into the corner is non-existant.
The red line is useless due to the view from the camera which is not in direct line with the cars. Now look at the PIP in the other photo shown. The poster says, remove the airbox..., but again due to the lens on the camera, i would imagine that Webbers front wheel was just level with Hamiltons rear. The PIP confirms this!
Hamilton was NEVER 1.5 lengths ahead, as claimed. He was NEVER fully ahead.
No disrespect but i'm beginning to think those of you who claim to know anything about racing, don't or are being hypocritical. You don't have to be "clear" of another car to have the right to the racing lane. All that is required is that you you are ahead, and don't not squeeze the other driver. Webber was given room by Hamilton moving to the outside, we can see this in the video, lewis moving a lane wide.
Webber had the luxury of braking early while still being able to take the turn ie if he chose to utilize the space that hamilton granted him if he followed lewis to the outside. This is to setup for the turn.
Now, what webber did wrong is that instead of going wide, using the space that he was granted. He went straight ahead threatening to log jam the turn and scare Hamilton into not taking it. This, scare tactic, only works if you are ahead, and is only legal if you are defending, not attacking.
Webber at no time is ahead of hamilton.

People just need to understand that marc has no discipline. Ok hypocrites, watch this:

Alonso on shumacher, same move as Hamilton:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWl4Iffi ... re=related[/youtube]
ok, works fine, not cleared by a car length, but shumacher has sense and yeilds.

try passing this guy, on the straight... should work.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqSlCrjT_YI&NR=1[/youtube]
Oh it's webber :roll: something's bound to go wrong.
The guy has a passing complex, it makes him feel less of a man if he's passed.
He thinks if he yields once, it's like he becomes overtaking driver's bitch for life!

The Singapore thing is a racing incident, but if he does it again, he should be penalized.
For Sure!!

aral
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay Street Circuit

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:13 pm

ringo wrote:
gilgen wrote: The red line is useless due to the view from the camera which is not in direct line with the cars. Now look at the PIP in the other photo shown. The poster says, remove the airbox..., but again due to the lens on the camera, i would imagine that Webbers front wheel was just level with Hamiltons rear. The PIP confirms this!
Hamilton was NEVER 1.5 lengths ahead, as claimed. He was NEVER fully ahead.
No disrespect but i'm beginning to think those of you who claim to know anything about racing, don't or are being hypocritical. You don't have to be "clear" of another car to have the right to the racing lane. All that is required is that you you are ahead, and don't not squeeze the other driver. Webber was given room by Hamilton moving to the outside, we can see this in the video, lewis moving a lane wide.
Webber had the luxury of braking early while still being able to take the turn ie if he chose to utilize the space that hamilton granted him if he followed lewis to the outside. This is to setup for the turn.
Now, what webber did wrong is that instead of going wide, using the space that he was granted. He went straight ahead threatening to log jam the turn and scare Hamilton into not taking it. This, scare tactic, only works if you are ahead, and is only legal if you are defending, not attacking.
Webber at no time is ahead of hamilton.



The Singapore thing is a racing incident, but if he does it again, he should be penalized.
If you play the original scene, you will see that Webber was well over the kerbs on his left hand side. this despite Hamilton (who didn't know he was there!) saying that he left him plenty of room. If he didn't know he was there, why would he leave him room. If he did know that he was there, he obviously did not leave enough room. He cannot have it both ways.
I don't defend Webber as he is involved in several questionable clashes, this year, and i call this a racing accident. But i dispute your comment that the person who is on the racing line, has priority. If that was the case, there would be no passing. You always look for the gap, and go for it. Anything less is not racing.

Avto
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:22 pm

My understanding of this sport is nothing compared to some of the guys on this forum, so my opinion might not be the most popular one around here, but why is it that only Lewis Hamilton is allowed to race and all the other drivers should follow each other without a hint of an overtaking maneuver.

wesley123
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:27 pm

he knows he was there, he only didnt know where he precisely was.

This was, as regularely happens, another moronic action by Webber who again gets away with it. It i simply ridiculous that Webber can Slam hamilton in Australia this year, Barrichello in Germany last year, Now in Singapore again Hamilton, Try to overtake Kovalainen over the top and more i forgot woithout an penalty, this is ridiculous.

@Ayto; have you seen the race? It was Hamilton overtaking Webber which is discussed here
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

andrew
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:46 pm

Avto wrote:My understanding of this sport is nothing compared to some of the guys on this forum, so my opinion might not be the most popular one around here, but why is it that only Lewis Hamilton is allowed to race and all the other drivers should follow each other without a hint of an overtaking maneuver.
Your opinion's fine and is just as valid as all other opinions, it's just that Hamilton is a popular guy (no idea why?!) so it is only natural that there will be a lot of pro-Hamilton posts. Don't worry about it. None of us like to think that the driver or team we support it ever going to be in the wrong.

donskar
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:15 pm

[...]
Last edited by Steven on Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: On topic please
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

donskar
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:18 pm

On a serious point, read somewhere (James Allen?) that Alonso's Singapore engine finished the race with over 2,500 Km on it! That is some durable engine! =D>
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

Post Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:08 am

They say that and old engine might only just loose 2hp. That's not bad at all.

On that Webber Incident. We all know Webber is not the sharpest tool in the shed... He had a FULL CLEAR view of the situation. Hamilton was on the racing line and Webber KNOWS that Hamilton was going to follow the line aaaaalll the way through. He knews there is going to be a car on the apex before his, so what does that mean? You yield the position!
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne