Brazilian GP 2010 - Interlagos

[feni_remmen]

I thought the race was entertaining, just a shame that F1 still can't get a safety car period right. Having lapped cars ruin a championship battle is just mind boggling. Crazy. But, it makes good TV and what's better for TV than having a four way fight go to the last race. If anyone should be punished for influencing the outcome of the race it should be the rule writers in the FIA. Their backwards rules influence races/championships far more than a radio transmission.

When watching other series that allow the lapped cars to pass for "Lucky Dog" or to allow the front runners to race to the end without back markers it does make for better entertainment.

From a drivers viewpoint in F1 it may be uncomfortable pushing car/tires harder to open up a gap knowing that a Safety Car would eradicate any lead.

At the end of the day the sport is there for entertainment, so I do hope they change the rules, I only hope it does not stop drivers pushing to the max.

I've been watching grand prix since 1985 and had an interest since before then, so I am amazed when people complain that the backmarkers should be moved aside when the safety car comes out, to allow the cars behind a run at the guys in front.
The safety car procedure already disadvantages the leading cars, surely it is not too much to ask that the following cars have to overtake backmarkers on merit.

[SiLo]

Vettel being champion is far more important to Red Bull than Webber being champion.
Based on Brazil, I would ask the question wether being the drivers championship team is of importance to them at all.

Had Vettel finished second to Webber, Red Bull would still have Both in the drivers championship with a result far more positive for a Red Bull driver to be chamion than it is now.

As it is, I see the results in Abu Dhabi as

1st Webber
2nd Vettel
3rd Alonso

Which would make Webber the champion. But somthing rankles, I just dont see Vettel sitting back and I dont see Webber yielding. Another Turkey is on the cards methinks....
And Alonso will be there to pick up all the pieces.

Or depending on how close Alonso is....Hamilton would pick them up. Now that would be hilarious.

[marcush.]

that would be my fav ,no question about it...Hamilton taking the pot in the last corner when all them heros are interlocked unable to complete the pass...

[ak07]

I've been watching grand prix since 1985 and had an interest since before then, so I am amazed when people complain that the backmarkers should be moved aside when the safety car comes out, to allow the cars behind a run at the guys in front.
The safety car procedure already disadvantages the leading cars, surely it is not too much to ask that the following cars have to overtake backmarkers on merit.

I see your point, but lapped cars can ruin a race. For instance, say next week we have the top three cars coming up on traffic. If the caution comes out when the leading car has lapped 5-6 cars, fighting for position, and then the 2nd and 3rd place cars have yet to lap them. The leader has a huge advantage because the the safety car.

A restart behind a couple backmarkers battling for position will put you at a far bigger disadvantage than passing them while they are spread out, in the same fashion the leader did.

Let the people who are racing each other race each other. Restart the cars in the order they were being scored in when the caution came out. Cautions are going to pack the group up either way, you might as well have the rules making the racing better than possibly ruining a battle.

[raymondu999]

i watched an interview where he clearly stated that vettel was an "average driver" with no considerable talent just like kova (now thats a huge insult if you look at how great kova is) and that his team clearly wants vettel to win. i dont have to remind you of the various comments he has made after wing-gate and turkey (for example), do i?

as i said, i used to like him, so i have no reason to make stuff up.

I'll be happy to retract my statement if you can provide a link to the interview mentioned above.

Yes, I remember Turkey and Wing-gate. I do not remember Webber disparaging his team or Vettel.

The interview in question (with Kovalainen) is this one: http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 32725.html
Please note that by posting this link I am NOT saying Mark said Vettel was an average driver. I'm just providing the link.

[alvinkhorfire]

if Massa, Button, or even Vettel in this particular race, would have such long lasting temp problems as Webbo, most of You would probably call it Team Orders. It is funny no one considered this in such way. Most curious is WHEN Race Engineer told Mark that his engine is overheating and he will loose it for sure if he wont slow down... They kept telling him that when he was closing to Vettel - and closing FAST (about half a second each lap in some cases as i recall). As i said, if it was Massa most would be SURE it was team orders. You all know how much they love Vettel in RBR HQ and still no conspiracy theories around here?

You know what, I thought I was one of the more cynical fans, but your bang on the money there, and it actually didn't even occur to me during the race. Perhaps the only way to awaken my conspiracy theory gland is to be watching races at stupid o'clock?

How easy would it be for RB to "tell" Webber that his engine was running hot, so he'd better back off for a few laps, co-incidentally at the same time that he was catching Vettel?

They could very well have done this specifically to ensure that their options were kept open at Abu Dhabi.

Is Webber's engine in Brazil the one being used in Korea? It was a new engine in Korea and should have low mileage since he unfortunately crashed out of the race. If that is so, what are the odds of a fresher engine having a overheating problem? I am sensing a bit of conspiracy theory, aka team order here.

[raymondu999]

You never know... life can give you lemons sometimes, and it could just be the luck of the draw. On that note, does anyone know if Mark sensed/saw/noticed/whatever the problem himself, or did he just take whatever Ciaron told him?

Sorry, edit. Just found this.

Q: (Byron Young - The Daily Mirror) Mark, could you feel anything with the engine, or was it just information from the team?
MW: Just information mate. Normally they don’t ring us up unless there are issues, so the phone rang… it’s never nice when they have to ask you to manage something. The safety car helped a bit but then very quickly it was back again the first lap after the safety car. I’m not in the best position to answer all your questions in terms of what it was but it was right on the edge apparently, but we got it home.

Btw, did anyone notice that last year, it was Hulkenberg's teammate who got pole and finished 8th, and last year Sebastian's teammate started 2nd and won?

[zeph]

i watched an interview where he clearly stated that vettel was an "average driver" with no considerable talent just like kova (now thats a huge insult if you look at how great kova is) and that his team clearly wants vettel to win.

I'll be happy to retract my statement if you can provide a link to the interview mentioned above.

The interview in question (with Kovalainen) is this one: http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport ... 32725.html

That's the one? Hmm, in this transcript he does not exactly compare Vettel to Kovalainen, and he does not really say that Vettel is an average driver.

And although the article alludes to Horner having said that they are building the team around Vettel, that is not the same as Webber saying that they clearly want Vettel to win.
Of course, he did mention that in last week's Q&A but that was certainly a very measured and diplomatic response.

If this is it, I don't see why it is so terribly wrong. Maybe it came out different on TV.

[feni_remmen]

I've been watching grand prix since 1985 and had an interest since before then, so I am amazed when people complain that the backmarkers should be moved aside when the safety car comes out, to allow the cars behind a run at the guys in front.
The safety car procedure already disadvantages the leading cars, surely it is not too much to ask that the following cars have to overtake backmarkers on merit.

I see your point, but lapped cars can ruin a race. For instance, say next week we have the top three cars coming up on traffic. If the caution comes out when the leading car has lapped 5-6 cars, fighting for position, and then the 2nd and 3rd place cars have yet to lap them. The leader has a huge advantage because the the safety car.

A restart behind a couple backmarkers battling for position will put you at a far bigger disadvantage than passing them while they are spread out, in the same fashion the leader did.

Let the people who are racing each other race each other. Restart the cars in the order they were being scored in when the caution came out. Cautions are going to pack the group up either way, you might as well have the rules making the racing better than possibly ruining a battle.

I am not so sure you are right. If there are 5 or 6 back markers between 1st place and 2nd, I suspect that the second car will have gained more time once he has lapped all those car, if you compare the gap to the leader before the safety car. It seems a great way address the unfairness of losing your lead when the safety car was deployed. I think the opposite about them ruining a race. I want a fair result. One that reflects performances on the day.

[komninosm]

I'll easy bitch about that plus Timo Glock having a sudden but temporary loss of traction in Brazil 2008.

Only you could bitch about team orders to another team

[vall]

Haven't seen one person bitch about Heikki moving over for Lewis in Germany when they were teammates, but everybody wants to bitch about Ferrari. Strange. Here we have Red Bull throwing away a WDC for one of their drivers and Webbo not doing enough to win it and Alonso WILL win it if the engine doesn't grenade. I'll bet 50 bucks.

it has been mentioned many times (I did it several) but certain members of this forum silently and conveniently ignore it. But it is a fact Heiki let Hamilton pass. Somebody answered, yes, he did that, but Hamilton was much faster! But as we know from what Ferrari communicated to Massa and what was evident on the track, Alonso was also much faster than Massa So, what's the difference?

[vall]

if Massa, Button, or even Vettel in this particular race, would have such long lasting temp problems as Webbo, most of You would probably call it Team Orders. It is funny no one considered this in such way. Most curious is WHEN Race Engineer told Mark that his engine is overheating and he will loose it for sure if he wont slow down... They kept telling him that when he was closing to Vettel - and closing FAST (about half a second each lap in some cases as i recall). As i said, if it was Massa most would be SURE it was team orders. You all know how much they love Vettel in RBR HQ and still no conspiracy theories around here?

You know what, I thought I was one of the more cynical fans, but your bang on the money there, and it actually didn't even occur to me during the race. Perhaps the only way to awaken my conspiracy theory gland is to be watching races at stupid o'clock?

How easy would it be for RB to "tell" Webber that his engine was running hot, so he'd better back off for a few laps, co-incidentally at the same time that he was catching Vettel?

They could very well have done this specifically to ensure that their options were kept open at Abu Dhabi.

Is Webber's engine in Brazil the one being used in Korea? It was a new engine in Korea and should have low mileage since he unfortunately crashed out of the race. If that is so, what are the odds of a fresher engine having a overheating problem? I am sensing a bit of conspiracy theory, aka team order here.

No way because it must include Mark as well (meanign he plays against himself)!!!! Mark can easily check the car data after the race nad see if he really had an issue. Unless RBR falsify the data immediately after the race, which seems very unlikely.

[CMSMJ1]

Haven't seen one person bitch about Heikki moving over for Lewis in Germany when they were teammates, but everybody wants to bitch about Ferrari. Strange. Here we have Red Bull throwing away a WDC for one of their drivers and Webbo not doing enough to win it and Alonso WILL win it if the engine doesn't grenade. I'll bet 50 bucks.

it has been mentioned many times (I did it several) but certain members of this forum silently and conveniently ignore it. But it is a fact Heiki let Hamilton pass. Somebody answered, yes, he did that, but Hamilton was much faster! But as we know from what Ferrari communicated to Massa and what was evident on the track, Alonso was also much faster than Massa So, what's the difference?

Difference is that they were on different strategy. Nobody called for any hanging when Nick Heidfeld let Bob Kubica past in Canada...exactly the same and a valid use of team orders that people understand.

I personally thought Ferrari managed it badly but apart from that, if Alonso was faster, then he should have overtaken him.

I think the rule is toothless and should be revoked.

[komninosm]

Haven't seen one person bitch about Heikki moving over for Lewis in Germany when they were teammates, but everybody wants to bitch about Ferrari. Strange. Here we have Red Bull throwing away a WDC for one of their drivers and Webbo not doing enough to win it and Alonso WILL win it if the engine doesn't grenade. I'll bet 50 bucks.

it has been mentioned many times (I did it several) but certain members of this forum silently and conveniently ignore it. But it is a fact Heiki let Hamilton pass. Somebody answered, yes, he did that, but Hamilton was much faster! But as we know from what Ferrari communicated to Massa and what was evident on the track, Alonso was also much faster than Massa So, what's the difference?

Enough of this BS already. It's not the same and you [should] know it. They finished with other cars between them.

It's not the same when your 2 drivers are 1-2 and switch places [sometimes on the last lap like Schumacher] only to pass each other and gift points.

[ell66]

Haven't seen one person bitch about Heikki moving over for Lewis in Germany when they were teammates, but everybody wants to bitch about Ferrari. Strange. Here we have Red Bull throwing away a WDC for one of their drivers and Webbo not doing enough to win it and Alonso WILL win it if the engine doesn't grenade. I'll bet 50 bucks.

it has been mentioned many times (I did it several) but certain members of this forum silently and conveniently ignore it. But it is a fact Heiki let Hamilton pass. Somebody answered, yes, he did that, but Hamilton was much faster! But as we know from what Ferrari communicated to Massa and what was evident on the track, Alonso was also much faster than Massa So, what's the difference?

you cant be serious? alonso was a couple of tenths a lap faster at most, lewis was on a different strategy and was 2 seconds faster at that point and with a chance of victory (which heiki didnt have), i wonder about some of you on here.