Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
raymondu999
156
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

bomz_za wrote:I'm excited about turn 13, tight left-hander. Its exit determines the top speed down the back straight.
Is it really a corner though? I thought it would be easy flat for most F1 cars. Maybe not the HRT :P But I think the art there is to choose your line. For example, I've noticed that Button/Vettel/Alonso (only 3 qualy laps of 2010 I've seen) take rather different lines to each other there. Alonso is a more "late apex" line, Button a more "conventional" "mid apex" line, and Vettel takes it like the old Club corner (apex very early, then just put the car through one straight line all the way. It's been a while since I've seen those laps though so I could be slightly wrong in my descriptions.
beelsebob wrote:I doubt that – at Sepang it was McLaren dominating through the fast corners.
A large part of that, it seems, was the wing level - RB seem to have been covering off some of the straightline-faster cars by using less wing angle on the rear, whilst McLaren were trying to cover the Red Bull's cornering downforce by sacrificing their spare top speed and adding more rear wing.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

bomz_za
bomz_za
0
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

bomz_za wrote:I'm excited about turn 13, tight left-hander. Its exit determines the top speed down the back straight.
raymondu999 wrote:Is it really a corner though? I thought it would be easy flat for most F1 cars. Maybe not the HRT :P But I think the art there is to choose your line. For example, I've noticed that Button/Vettel/Alonso (only 3 qualy laps of 2010 I've seen) take rather different lines to each other there. Alonso is a more "late apex" line, Button a more "conventional" "mid apex" line, and Vettel takes it like the old Club corner (apex very early, then just put the car through one straight line all the way. It's been a while since I've seen those laps though so I could be slightly wrong in my descriptions.
With exit speeds of 250kph+ and something like 3.5g's, a RollerCoaster maybe :wink:

User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

Turns 1-3 are more drivers corners your constantly losing downforce and by the time you reach the apex, your going about 70kph, turns 7 and 8 are pure aero corners especially 7, because going wide on 7 will force extra braking for 8 and ruin your line all through to 10.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

beelsebob
beelsebob
179
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

raymondu999 wrote:
beelsebob wrote:I doubt that – at Sepang it was McLaren dominating through the fast corners.
A large part of that, it seems, was the wing level - RB seem to have been covering off some of the straightline-faster cars by using less wing angle on the rear, whilst McLaren were trying to cover the Red Bull's cornering downforce by sacrificing their spare top speed and adding more rear wing.
How you generate downforce is irrelevant – saying "red bull have a high downforce car on which they can sacrifice some downforce for losing drag" and "McLaren have a low drag car on which they can sacrifice some drag to gain a load of downforce" both equate to "McLaren and RedBull can get high levels of downforce and remain pretty damn quick on the straight".

McLaren were not significantly slower on the straights at Sepang than RedBull were, but they were picking up significant time in turns 5 and 6 (at least in qually). I don't believe this'll change significantly in China (other than McLaren'll turn up with more upgrades and again be able to set up their car better). Thus I believe you'll see McLaren being the fastest through the high speed turns again at China.

TURU
TURU
0
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:26 pm

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

beelsebob wrote: How you generate downforce is irrelevant – saying "red bull have a high downforce car on which they can sacrifice some downforce for losing drag" and "McLaren have a low drag car on which they can sacrifice some drag to gain a load of downforce" both equate to "McLaren and RedBull can get high levels of downforce and remain pretty damn quick on the straight".

McLaren were not significantly slower on the straights at Sepang than RedBull were, but they were picking up significant time in turns 5 and 6 (at least in qually). I don't believe this'll change significantly in China (other than McLaren'll turn up with more upgrades and again be able to set up their car better). Thus I believe you'll see McLaren being the fastest through the high speed turns again at China.
Speedtraps beg to differ. AFAIR Hamilton had 14th maximum speed in qualifying. I wouldn't call that pretty damn quick on the straight.

User avatar
raymondu999
156
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

While you may be right, TURU, I stand corrected to beelsebob. If for example in qualy McL were quicker through 5 and 6, it doesn't matter where it's coming from. Point is, with their respective setups, they were quicker.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

alelanza
alelanza
7
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:05 am
Location: San José, Costa Rica

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

beelsebob wrote:
godlameroso wrote:Red Bull will dominate in turns 7 and 8, probably carrying as much as 20kph more through 7 alone.
I doubt that – at Sepang it was McLaren dominating through the fast corners.
Interesting, where did you get this info from?
Alejandro L.

User avatar
Echo
0
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

Ferrari takes this race :mrgreen the Italian car is made for long straights... Thanks by push rod... Mohahahaha :D

I'm actually living in Shanghai so I think it's goig to rain... An important factor, Shanghai is extremely cloudy, especially after the EXPO so it would probably be 20 deegrees and doesn't that fit the Ferrari...

I'm extremely frustrated to not see fernando on the podium
Rich teams should only be allowed to win

beelsebob
beelsebob
179
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

alelanza wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
godlameroso wrote:Red Bull will dominate in turns 7 and 8, probably carrying as much as 20kph more through 7 alone.
I doubt that – at Sepang it was McLaren dominating through the fast corners.
Interesting, where did you get this info from?
Check the qualifying sector times. McLaren were relative to red bull slow in the first sector, fast in the second sector and roughly equal in the third. Notably, sector 2 is dominated by fast corners, sector 1 is dominated by straight line speed, and sector 3 is a balance of the two.

User avatar
godlameroso
427
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

Sector one is from the pit straight, through that super slow right hander, followed by a even slower left hander with a slight elevation change forcing you to go a little wide, now we know the Maccas ride stiff and low, this probably had something to do with it losing time in this sector. Sector two is the slow up hill right hander followed by two really fast turns and the double apex right hander. Then a quick blast to an uphill chicane and it's not until after the next corner that the second sector ends. Sector three starts with a very quick left into a decreasing radius right.

I have a feeling that China will end just like Malaysia barring the weather or a RB7 DNF, the corners and their requirements are very similar.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

alelanza
alelanza
7
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:05 am
Location: San José, Costa Rica

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

beelsebob wrote:

Check the qualifying sector times. McLaren were relative to red bull slow in the first sector, fast in the second sector and roughly equal in the third. Notably, sector 2 is dominated by fast corners, sector 1 is dominated by straight line speed, and sector 3 is a balance of the two.
OK yeah i see your point, it's just i was hoping someone had apex speeds, not sure how we lost those this year...

on a diff subject:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkSHx52X ... r_embedded[/youtube]

Around min 4. Engine hitting close to 19k RPMs?? i really hope that clip is old and someone forgot to update it. THen again he makes it sound like you need a long straight to hit max revs, i'd hope a test driver would be able to differentiate tach from speedometers, so it wouldn't surprise me he has no idea or interest in the subject. Scary...
Alejandro L.

User avatar
raymondu999
156
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

Well they already had santander in that clip. Which only came on last year.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

Mr Alcatraz
Mr Alcatraz
-27
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: San Diego Ca. USA

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

When was the last time Gene even drove a Ferrari at Shanghai,if ever? :wtf:
Anyway he said it was hitting close to 19,000rpm. 18,000rpm is close to 19! :lol:
Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand

alelanza
alelanza
7
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:05 am
Location: San José, Costa Rica

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

Good point about santander, so there you go. This combined with BADoer's 09 performance makes you wonder...

And yeah what's a 1000 rpm here or there... peanuts!!
Alejandro L.

marcush.
marcush.
268
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Re: Chinese GP 2011 - Shanghai

Post

The characteristics of malysia and China are different ,with less high speed cornering..
so there is good reason to think the setups will be different as well as temperatures will be different.Which car will be able to run in a more or less favourable window of operation is still open.
The lower ambient track temps should help those who suffer with temperature issues -RedBull and Mercedes? and also those who lose downforce/aero balance when temps sore.
But with lower temps those who struggle to make their tyres work could run into trouble
like Lotus,Ferrari,Mercedes... and Williams could jump back into the battle for Q3?
Which of the teams with systems trouble will be helped by the less demanding ambient temps? Is the drs trouble Ferrari and Mercedes are suffering temperature
related? Or will they come up with new designs to erase this public humilation-even HRT had a working DRS....
Last edited by marcush. on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.