Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
Tommy Cookers
509
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Tommy Cookers » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:38 pm

aren't the pulses of energy associated with a given valve motion are independent of the effects you describe ?
especially if the smoothing idler is working

yes I was hoping someone else would do some calculations

Mudflap
150
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Mudflap » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 am

The compliant idler did decouple the crank train from the valvetrain, yes, but the valvetrain torsionals were still very bad.

While the cam operates the valve any forces due to spring vibration are turned into camshaft torque and radial loads.
How much TQ does it make though?

Rage
0
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Rage » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm

https://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=18927&


Very interesting crankshaft configuration, never seen a crankshaft like this before.

Tommy Cookers
509
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Tommy Cookers » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 am

it's not clear to me exactly how he has used the existing parts
if it was a 2 stroke of course it would be easy

the 4 stroke 125cc 5 cylinder Honda GP machine over 50 years ago was based on their 50cc twin
iirc it used the twin's crankshaft (180deg) coupled to a new 3 cylinder '120 deg' (strictly 240 deg) crankshaft
no great problem with 5 carbs and 5 exhaust systems
they were busy making new machines trying to win 4 World Championship classes so they took the easy ways around

Rage
0
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Rage » Sun May 13, 2018 9:54 pm


coaster
-5
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by coaster » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:05 am

That motor is a 4 + 1 and not a true 5.
It needs an evenly spaced crank and cams to be a 5.
Yours truly,
Wolsy Esquire.

tok-tokkie
20
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Cape Town

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by tok-tokkie » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:49 am

coaster wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:05 am
That motor is a 4 + 1 and not a true 5.
It needs an evenly spaced crank and cams to be a 5.
We can see that from how he coupled 2 cranks together to make the 5. But what is the timing of #5? Same as #1 so they fire as a big bang? Or is it half way between #1 & #2 (firing order, not line position).
This post shows them numbered 4 3 2 1 5 https://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=22846&

coaster
-5
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by coaster » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:11 am

It looks like its a flat plane 4 with a 90 degree pin for number 5. The imbalance is profound, you can see the test stand move a foot in 30 seconds or so.
Yours truly,
Wolsy Esquire.

humble sabot
23
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:33 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by humble sabot » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:57 am

That's one of the most needlessly pedantic claims I've ever read on F1Technical. If it has five pistons in five chambers it is a five cylinder motor.

There are some seriously bizarre claims made around here, and i understand the innate need for pedantry around engineering but this takes the cake.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

coaster
-5
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by coaster » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:17 am

Oh really humble? What falls into the definition of proper design and a simple cut and paste? Please define? What passes as sound design in your mind?
Yours truly,
Wolsy Esquire.

humble sabot
23
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:33 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by humble sabot » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:49 pm

I'm talking about your bizarre need to differentiate between an inline five and this engine, which is in every way five inline cylinders.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
static imbalance
dynamic imbalance

coaster
-5
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by coaster » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:16 pm

God i hate my last post, if the builder of this motor is reading please consider these steps;
Hayabusa 88mm bore spacing.
VW Jetta I5 88mm bore spacing.
48mm Vw big end journal?
Offset grind to 38mm big end,
10mm destroked.
Water jet cut a spacer for underneath the cylinder block to crankcase, machine to suit the stack height.

Its a start towards an even fire motor without resorting to a billet crank.
Yours truly,
Wolsy Esquire.

Zynerji
60
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Zynerji » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:10 pm

coaster wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:16 pm
God i hate my last post, if the builder of this motor is reading please consider these steps;
Hayabusa 88mm bore spacing.
VW Jetta I5 88mm bore spacing.
48mm Vw big end journal?
Offset grind to 38mm big end,
10mm destroked.
Water jet cut a spacer for underneath the cylinder block to crankcase, machine to suit the stack height.

Its a start towards an even fire motor without resorting to a billet crank.
Upon stumbling onto this thread, I clicked it expecting that this would be what was used. I was very surprised with the manufactured crank instead.

Tommy Cookers
509
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by Tommy Cookers » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:49 am

coaster wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:16 pm
God i hate my last post, if the builder of this motor is reading please consider these steps;
Hayabusa 88mm bore spacing.
VW Jetta I5 88mm bore spacing.
48mm Vw big end journal?
Offset grind to 38mm big end,
10mm destroked.
Water jet cut a spacer for underneath the cylinder block to crankcase, machine to suit the stack height.

Its a start towards an even fire motor without resorting to a billet crank.
the VR5 has a 90 mm stroke and 11 deg bank offsets and end drive for power takeoff and camshaft etc
EDITED as next post says need inline 5 not VR5 - AND NB VR5 has 71 mm bore spacing
a Hayabusa 'true 5' needs a 63/65 ish stroke and inboard power takeoff etc
so the journals seem to need metal deposit (Stellite) building up of the inner flank
and (electron beam) welding etc to enable eversion of the power etc takeoff

isn't it less difficult to re-angle under heat (for 144 deg intervals) a Hayabusa crankshaft and add a 5th bit by EBW ?

Laverda made and sold inline 3 cylinder machines with 1000cc solid-mounted engines having '2-up 1-down' flat crankshafts
presumably helped as much as possible by suitable counterweighting
so can a '3-up 2-down' flat crankshaft be so bad vibrationwise as some seem to imagine ?
and can the mix of flat and crossplane that has been suggested be so bad ?
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

coaster
-5
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:10 am

Re: Suzuki Hayabusa Inline Five

Post by coaster » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:00 am

Tommy, VW group had 2 types of 5 cylinder, a VR6 derivative V5 and an inline 5 based on the 4 cylinder. The inline 5 has the dimensionally compatible crankshaft sharing bore spacing but little else.
Ideally, get the shortest stroke I5 crank, anneal, thin the mass on a centre lathe, grind, nitride, balance.

I cant say much about oddfiring except that a lot of development is needed for the road less travelled, maybe a good thesis for a scholar?
Yours truly,
Wolsy Esquire.