Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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AosudiF1
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012, 17:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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marcush. wrote:so maybe his underperforming was not his idea but Brawns???
I think it was agreed between the parties (Merc and Schu) that probably the come back was more to do with marketing and attracting people's attention. Hell, it is probably one of the main reasons why these posts about Merc get so much attention (just think of Merc without Schu, and just Rosberg and somebody else... that would not be so much attractive).

My guess is that Schu is actually delivering pretty well. Last year was a pretty good confirmation of it (with a dog of a car, he ended with a pretty similar result than in 2010, or maybe better, and much closer to Rosberg).

Hopefully, the team will allow him to do proper races. It is clear that if he delivers, there is no reason why an extension of his contract would not be a good idea, if the car actually improves for next year as it did for this one.

NonNewtonic
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011, 16:55

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Another nice comparison which shows how Rosberg's mistake cost him a potential 2nd pole in 2 consecutive races.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eTXo5vt ... re=related[/youtube]

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yener
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Joined: 09 May 2011, 00:00

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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@Raptor22
I did notice it.

But i just cant believe Ross Brawn is "fooling" Michael. But it make sense in a lot of ways.
Nico dislikes having MS as a teammate, that we all know. Nico gets uncomfortable during interviews when talking about MS. When Nico won in China they didnt even mentioned Michael Schumacher.

Something behind close doors is going on and we can't see what. We can only speculate from the outside.
I think the head of Mercedes thinks about keeping Nico Rosberg satisfied and make him look a stunning driver, because they can go at least another 3 years with him and Michael is already over his top condition.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

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Cocles
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 13:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Typical. Armchair engineers cherry picking the facts. Anytime something good happens for Merc, it's a coincidence. Anytime something bad happens, it's a conspiracy!

Learn a new song.

Anyway-- I think the tires this season are homologating the drivers to some extent. Instead of driving to the limits of their abilities, the drivers are only able to drive to the limit of their tires. We're not going to see a four stop Grand Prix of France performance this season when 80% of the drivers on the grid are being forced to hold back.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Dragonfly wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:Heck the SAuber's and Force India's made Mercedes look completely stupid today. Actually, Mercedes are completely stupid.

Er, you base that on what exactly?

A Mercedes finished ahead of both McLaren's and both Ferrari's and the leading Force India as well as Sauber. So does that Make those four teams even more "stupid"?
JET, as much as I admire your passion for MGP, I can't but advise you to take your head out of the sand.
Rosberg finished where he started. And thanks to Mclaren messing it up again.
A FI on 2 stopper finished ahead of its starting place. Not to speak about the Lotus'es.
As a team they didn't do too badly. Had the race just been decided on track however I don't think Rosberg would be at least 6th, with Hamilton some 10 seconds up the road. (Given that he lost quite a bit in the stops)

Blame aside for the Rosberg v Alonso/Hamilton situations; I thought it was weird seeing him defend like that. Rosberg has usually been very docile if someone makes a move on him. I remember seeing Turkey last year Rosberg was just creamed around the outside at the last corner by Jenson Button. Not normal given that the last corner is a hairpin. Then we had Vettel (who let's face it - overtaking is not one of his stronger traits) just fly around the outside of him at places like Blanchimont and Turn 9 in Melbourne. This was a lot less docile (I thought) than that. I wonder if there's an element of being sort of "self-starstruck" for Rosberg. Kinda like, "I'm a winner now - I'm one of you boys. You can't push ME around."
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Maelstrom
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012, 06:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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raymondu999 wrote:
Dragonfly wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
Er, you base that on what exactly?

A Mercedes finished ahead of both McLaren's and both Ferrari's and the leading Force India as well as Sauber. So does that Make those four teams even more "stupid"?
JET, as much as I admire your passion for MGP, I can't but advise you to take your head out of the sand.
Rosberg finished where he started. And thanks to Mclaren messing it up again.
A FI on 2 stopper finished ahead of its starting place. Not to speak about the Lotus'es.
As a team they didn't do too badly. Had the race just been decided on track however I don't think Rosberg would be at least 6th, with Hamilton some 10 seconds up the road. (Given that he lost quite a bit in the stops)

Blame aside for the Rosberg v Alonso/Hamilton situations; I thought it was weird seeing him defend like that. Rosberg has usually been very docile if someone makes a move on him. I remember seeing Turkey last year Rosberg was just creamed around the outside at the last corner by Jenson Button. Not normal given that the last corner is a hairpin. Then we had Vettel (who let's face it - overtaking is not one of his stronger traits) just fly around the outside of him at places like Blanchimont and Turn 9 in Melbourne. This was a lot less docile (I thought) than that. I wonder if there's an element of being sort of "self-starstruck" for Rosberg. Kinda like, "I'm a winner now - I'm one of you boys. You can't push ME around."
Yep. Winning a race must have given him a lot of confidence.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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unfortunately I felt it was the opposite effect. He's feeling pressure to deliver, so he's trying to hammer home a point. Like the little kid in school who gets bullied, then he retorts, "Stop it ok! I'm a GP winner now!" and I feel it's making him go too aggressive. It's like he's starting to believe his own hype and trying to chase that. Which is usually a very bad thing to be doing to be honest.

I mean come on - You could see in qualifying that Rosberg was so committed.He just threw the car into the corners, but as a result he started locking up, and taking too much kerb and unsettling the car. Despite being ahead of Vettel pretty much the whole lap and even into the approach to the last corner (as shown in the lap comparison of Rosberg and Vettel), he takes too much inner kerb and cocks it up, unsettling the car again (as he did in T11)

Then after that he said something like he got the maximum out of the lap, and knew he would qualify bad because he focused on race setup instead. Hell of a lot of good that did him - finishing where he started, albeit helped by the McLaren pitfluffs.
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Maelstrom
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012, 06:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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You know what? Rosberg was never my pick to win the WDC. Not yet anyway. He's bringing in some decent points and thats good. If they get their act together and MSC starts scoring points too it will be better.

Before China they were in tenth place in the WCC. Now they are on fifth. If Michael had better races in China and Bahrain it could well have been fourth.

I think a decent target to aim for is third place and try hard for second. The win in China has raised fans expectations to unrealistic levels. I don't think they can win the WCC this year. Next year maybe.

Rosberg definately needs to settle down. I completely agree. The way he was racing could have ended up with him in an accident and out of the points completely. Fifth place is a good thing in my opinion.

I still think MSC is looking better in the Merc than Rosberg. Ofcourse I have no data to prove that considering MSC has not really finished two races. But he's looking happier in the car. We'll see if i'm right if Michael ever has an incident free race.

Maelstrom
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012, 06:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03

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sjns wrote:With everyone else except the Lotuses doing the same...
Given the start of the race, I don't think it was a bad for both drivers. The pack is just to close to wander through the field...
Yep. All the Mercedes (and Ferrari) powered cars were slower. Jenson even said he couldn't understand the lack of pace. Merc were doing okay. Compare the lap times of Hamilton, Schumacher and Rosberg and you'll see.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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My point is that I think Rosberg has this image in his mind that GP winners are fantastic drivers (which they are) who are relentlessly doing 60 qualifying laps in a race, they're decisive, they're fantastic defenders, fantastic overtakers, and he's trying to fit the description. It's a lot better to calm down and just do the best you can, or it comes out forced.

(Personal anecdote)
I remember when a good friend of mine turned to me several years back as a business mentor/advisor (I've had a reasonable amount of success in business). I didn't have stake in his company or whatsoever - but just did it as a friend. I started presenting myself as this quick, witty, quick-thinking, decisive guy who can see solutions that aren't initially obvious, and I realized after a while that really - that wasn't me.

It's that pitfall that I think Rosberg's sort of gotten into after his first victory. Especially considering it was such a dominant one.
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Maelstrom
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Hmm.... You may be right. But it's early days. Maybe he'll settle down a bit in the next few races.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I'm not saying it's an uncurable situation - but I think that through this race weekend he was undergoing such a phase
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Dragonfly wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:Heck the SAuber's and Force India's made Mercedes look completely stupid today. Actually, Mercedes are completely stupid.

Er, you base that on what exactly?

A Mercedes finished ahead of both McLaren's and both Ferrari's and the leading Force India as well as Sauber. So does that Make those four teams even more "stupid"?
JET, as much as I admire your passion for MGP, I can't but advise you to take your head out of the sand.
Rosberg finished where he started. And thanks to Mclaren messing it up again.
A FI on 2 stopper finished ahead of its starting place. Not to speak about the Lotus'es.
I responded to the quote.

Do you think Mercedes are stupid in relation to the teams they beat on Sunday?
In the end I'm using cold hard facts that seem to suggest that if Mercedes are stupid, then so are the teams they beat on Sunday.

Of course the more logical readers/posters will know that is not the case. None fo the mentioned teams are "stupid".

I'm not saying they set the world alight either, but if a little bit of perspective was applied before posting I feel I wouldnt have to set the record straight.

If we go back a week, does this mean Lotus were "stupid" for not brining Raikkonen in earlier? Or Red Bull stupid for not running the new exhaust on Vettel?
It's beyond me how people can level such criticisms at teams when in reality, taking gambles is part of the game.

Hell, had Schumacher not fluffed his lap in Q1 we could be talking about Hamilton missing the cut at Bahrain. Small margins.
And with something as novel as the Merc DDRS if you continuously tinker with it(driver feedback driven) then it is prone to fail.

I have faith in Schumacher yet, he is just going through a rough patch. It will come good, evidently not soon enough for some.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Personally, I like the "new" Rosberg. He fights to keep his position. Who knows what's going on in his head, but I think it's safe to say that now that he *knows* he has a chance of winning he's more likely to defend his position.

And hey... as long has he gets away with it, I'm fine with Rosberg being as aggressive as he wants.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Again - there's nothing "factual" as such in my assessment. That's just how I saw it. An element of chasing his hype, and also another element of desperation - like he feels "oh come on I'm a winner now! They're not supposed to do this to me!"

Again. Just how I read it. Not that it matters to other people. I saw his move across the track, as a defensive move, a bit indecisive. It's as if he wanted to cover his line, but couldn't decide where to put his car, so he just basically put his car through the entire width of the track.

Had Hamilton not gone right, and just stayed dead straight, I think the effects would be similar to Webber v Vettel, Turkey 2010. Again - my personal view.
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