Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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SSS
SSS
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Joined: 22 Jul 2012, 17:40

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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sidmiester wrote:im so sorry michael because he deserved more... but cmon guys, michael himself admitted that he didnt want to continue. so we got lewis, we needed to end it right there.

anyway i think lewis will be very demanding, thats exactly kind of attitude we need in this team. i think lewis and nico is a great partnership, and it would be the first chassis designed by costa/elliot under the leadership of bell, so i am expecting some good things from this team.

and lauda appointment is a good thing, he was very straightforward that W03 was nowhere near compettitive and they needed to go back to drawing board. i am expecting some good things from W04. maybe not like as competitive as bulls or mclarens or ferraris, but consistently good, like lotus of this year.
wih lauda i am expecting some serious scrutiny ... because our board has gone too soft so far... we need some montezemolo-like- treatment from zetche!

atleast i am expecting improvements on race pace...

with bigois/john owen/bell i didnt have same confidence, but with costa/elliot/bell i do. i think they will improve, and hope this team will change in the lower division as well, because team has remained unchanged for quite a while except at the top level;technical heads, they need to change at lower division as well. well janaury testing cant come soon enough

does anyone know when will be w04 unveiling?

Bob Bell has failed twice. W02 was barely launched when he joined & he failed in in-season development. He failed miserably with WO3.

Costa joined in December last year so he's had 1 year already. 1 Full Year. When he joined there was still 3-4 months left before the car was to be launched & he was surely in the loop much before. He failed with IN-Season Development. The Coanda which he advocated & even a team like Force India mastered bombed & failed.

Costa-Willis-Bell are rejects who have failed miserably & have had no hope.

Bell left, James Key left & now Elliot but it makes no difference to Renault who has a smaller budget & less money but a wondeful team who continue to make great cars. I think its more the engineering side, the quality in mass, the organizational structure. I dont think Elliot has a magic wand.

Mercedes team is doomed. There only hope after they destroy Hamilton & Nico's career is if they can lure a Hulkenberg who will be big or maybe a Vettel(very unlikely) in 2016 with a huge 30-40Million Euros Salary & the German dream.

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Cocles
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 13:27

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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diego1960 wrote:I think Mercedes made a mistake by letting Schumacher go...
Could you please post a link to a respected news site that supports the idea of Mercedes "letting Schumacher go"?

As a Schumacher fan myself, everything I've read points to Schumacher being ready to retire and get back his family, which is why he didn't sign when he had the chance. There is a subset of Schumacher fans who are very upset about his retirement, yet refuse to place any blame at Schumacher's feet, because they'd rather be angry with Mercedes than their hero. This is totally understandable. I think you're mistakenly extrapolating your views from that heavily biased speculation.

Cold Fussion
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 04:51

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Nando wrote:Start counting in 2010.

Otherwise we can start counting Red Bull since Stewart GP.
Why would we do that, it's fundamentally the same team who were there at Brawn GP.

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Cold Fussion wrote:
Nando wrote:Start counting in 2010.

Otherwise we can start counting Red Bull since Stewart GP.
Why would we do that, it's fundamentally the same team who were there at Brawn GP.
Do you honestly think Red Bull replaced every single person when they bought Jaguar? Of course they didn´t.
So as you can see i have already asnwered your question in the quote.

We count Mercedes GP and Red Bull Racing, not Brawn GP or Jaguar racing.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Cold Fussion
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 04:51

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Nando wrote:
Cold Fussion wrote:
Nando wrote:Start counting in 2010.

Otherwise we can start counting Red Bull since Stewart GP.
Why would we do that, it's fundamentally the same team who were there at Brawn GP.
Do you honestly think Red Bull replaced every single person when they bought Jaguar? Of course they didn´t.
So as you can see i have already asnwered your question in the quote.

We count Mercedes GP and Red Bull Racing, not Brawn GP or Jaguar racing.
A name change doesn't make it new team.

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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So we´ll start counting success for Red Bull back when it was called Stewart GP.
Just so we are on the same page here.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

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banibhusan
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 13:08

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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The W04 will be at least .5s faster for sure because of you-know-who!! :D

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Paul
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Who's getting the #9 next season? 8)

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diego1960
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 17:39
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Cocles wrote:
diego1960 wrote:I think Mercedes made a mistake by letting Schumacher go...
Could you please post a link to a respected news site that supports the idea of Mercedes "letting Schumacher go"?

As a Schumacher fan myself, everything I've read points to Schumacher being ready to retire and get back his family, which is why he didn't sign when he had the chance. There is a subset of Schumacher fans who are very upset about his retirement, yet refuse to place any blame at Schumacher's feet, because they'd rather be angry with Mercedes than their hero. This is totally understandable. I think you're mistakenly extrapolating your views from that heavily biased speculation.
Dear Cocles,

you know "respected news sites" can offer false news too, interview people with a specific task to only tell what they are supposed, the "official company line" etc. Many times you can learn more things and more accurate facts from "word of mouth" instead of news sites. Example the strange story of Michael Schumacher's retirement in 2006, where many people now agree that things weren't as they were presented from the Ferrari camp. In 2006 however, people who said that something strange was going on in the background where considered borderline crazy. The fact only that EJ had "news" to offer and was accurate, telling the world that Bernie was his source long before MSC announced retirement makes me suspicious.

My opinion is that Schumacher was waiting to see if the W03 would improve and therefore set a base for W04 to succeed before deciding to sign a new contract, up to here that has been heard all over the world. Mercedes (being a really really underachieving F1 outfit) couldn't assure him that that would be the case. Long before, they were first approached by Hamilton's people and therefore had a "plan-b" in case Schumacher didn't sign. As the days progressed, they offered more to Lewis (and we can only guess that Bernie might have a part to play in putting Lewis in a silver arrow), and he decided that it is in his best interest to sign a contract with the Brackley outfit.
That left Schumacher without a team whereas he expected that he would have more time, I am absolutely sure he didn't believe that Hammy would give-up on McLaren to join Mercedes (I assume maybe till the end of October was Schumi's deadline?), and as McLaren completed their line-up, Red-Bull too and Kimi was in Lotus, Ferrari was a no-go for various reasons so his only option was Sauber. I believe that out of nowhere he found himself without a seat in a competitive car. I think that he couldn't bear the thought of cruising in midfield for another year or two so he hang-up his helmet although he wasn't ready. I think he did it to save face, not look that he was pushed-out of the team, because signing with Sauber would look like that to many people.

All in all he really didn't look like a man ready to retire. He went to see the young driver's test, where the new exhausts where fitted, and looked focused and determined to the very end. Athletes that have retirement in their minds, even determined ones, deteriorate at the end, thinking that it is not worth it, it gets more difficult to keep up the form at the very end. I can offer football examples (and by football I mean the European edition) but you might say that they are not relevant, this proves nothing, every person is different etc.

I am not declaring MSC a saint, he is a person like everyone else and disappointed me with his form in 2010 and his many accidents in 2011. In 2012 however he was really improved, borderline brilliant in certain races and certainly deserved better than what he got at the end. Mercedes was to blame for many of his mechanical failures, a sub-par car for both drivers in 3(!) years as well as the inability to field 2 reliable cars at once, a feat that Marussia could master more often than the silver BAR Honda. I assure you I am no fan-boy, I might be young but I have been watching F1 since 1998, and although I am a fan of this team I will not close my eyes to their incompetence just because they are named "Mercedes". Same goes for MSC who was weaker than Nico in 2010 and I would have been extra critical if I was a member back then, for his "accidents" also, and his quastionable midfield racing.

edit: WOW that is long...
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." - Ayrton Senna

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FoxHound
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Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Either way it's in the past now. Schumacher is consigned to the history books and it gets a monkey off the teams back.
His presence exerted even more pressure on the team than was really necessary.
In 3 years, I don't think I have ever seen a team recieve so much flak from brawn detractors, Schumacher lovers/haters and the like.
It puts being a fan of the team into such a tight position that every post you make is seen as a defence for the team.

That's not the case, we all appreciate/revel in Mercedes woes. They are easy targets and made ever more easier with Schumacher sitting in the car.
The 3 years weren't without highlights... But they where definately outweighed by the lows.

At least we can say, Mercedes aren't sitting on their hands. The extent of the changes have been massive, I just hope we start to see the shoots of these changes in 4 months in Spain...
JET set

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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If he really was fired and taken by the decision he would not try and see if he can work with Mercedes after, which he has said he will probably do.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

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FoxHound
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Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Nando wrote:If he really was fired and taken by the decision he would not try and see if he can work with Mercedes after, which he has said he will probably do.
Well it could herald a return to sportscars.

Mercedes won the FIA GT1 championship this year(beating McLaren in the process), which only has 8 rounds. May suit Schumi down to the ground.
JET set

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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but wasn´t that win handed to them? I think i remember a massive shunt for the actual championship leaders which basically gave the title to Mercedes?

Yea it will be interesting to see what he will do next. Le Mans maybe?
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

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FoxHound
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Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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I didn't even know Mercedes where competing in GT1 this year....I recall them competing in GT3 but not GT1.
A quick search reveals Mercedes won GT3 too.

As for the shunt, I see the SLS GT1 team was excluded from the results in the final race but still had the championship by single point over McLaren.
JET set

Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

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Thanks for the info, i haven´t watched anything just remembered a news article about the last race of the season.
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

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