Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:So, Anthony was almost right when he said, the car was probably not in gear!
If that's the case I am keen to know why guys in the garage and on the pitwall did not noticed that.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Jolle wrote:
GPR-A wrote:
ChrisF1 wrote:I think I saw a headline where Kimi was blaming the clutch?
Anthony Davidson was showing on Skypad a clip of Kimi's onboard at start. what happened on his steering wasn't clear as the display of Kimi's steering was not visible due to the angle of the shot. But he was guessing that, the car wasn't in the gear, because Kimi did released the first clutch and boom, the car didn't move. He then immediately went to manual mode and got the car running. Until Ferrari releases a statement, it would be unclear if it was a clutch that was the culprit or was it a driver error. Following is the only shot I could get from Youtube. This is FOM snap, but the one that was shown on Sky was without the on screen graphic display.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCvnvUPmMQk
"yes yes yes, I know what I'm doing"

it would be quite funny if the most experienced drivers on the grid have trouble with this "old fashion" start system
It's hard to tell whether you are joking or not but the start system is exactly the same as it was previously.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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bhall II wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:You Ferrari fans think Ferrari should be proud of fighting for 2nd place?
It's much better to be fighting for P2 than it is to be fighting for Q2. :D
Let me use the most abused theory here, the theory of diminishing returns. McLaren-Honda have more to gain than Ferrari and Mercedes. Hence, it is more optimistic situation for McLaren-Honda to get out from Q2 to P2, than for Ferrari to get out of P2 to P1. Anything can happen.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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bhall II wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:You Ferrari fans think Ferrari should be proud of fighting for 2nd place?
It's much better to be fighting for P2 than it is to be fighting for Q2. :D
Sorry but you´re insisting on the same, comparing Ferrari with McH so Ferrari doesn´t look that bad, when Ferrari should be comparing with Mercedes, not with the first season of a long term project

And you didn´t answer the question, as everyone reading this thread. Coincidence? Or maybe Alonso is not far wrong there? :wink:

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Andres125sx wrote:
bhall II wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:You Ferrari fans think Ferrari should be proud of fighting for 2nd place?
It's much better to be fighting for P2 than it is to be fighting for Q2. :D
Sorry but you´re insisting on the same, comparing Ferrari with McH so Ferrari doesn´t look that bad, when Ferrari should be comparing with Mercedes, not with the first season of a long term project

And you didn´t answer the question, as everyone reading this thread. Coincidence? Or maybe Alonso is not far wrong there? :wink:
Yes, i'm happy with the 2nd place. Better be second for now, then be at the back fighting with Manor. And it's not only Ferrari that should be comparing with Mercedes. Mclaren should be doing that too. And if your faith tells you that next year Mclaren will be better, mine tells me that Ferrari will be even better.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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santos wrote: And it's not only Ferrari that should be comparing with Mercedes. Mclaren should be doing that too.
No they shouldn´t. Do you understand what a long term project means?

If now Maranello is happy just beating a team whose target is NOT fighting for the championship on current season, then Ferrari is no longer the team it used to be.

That is what Alonso was saying, and he´s right, like it or not. Ferrari is a team whose only purpose is winning championships, so if they can´t win, they have no reasons to be proud.

If you Ferrari fans are happy thinking McH situation is worse that´s up to you, but if you want to talk about Ferrari, then they have no reasons to be proud since 2007.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Given the context of the conversation, the better comparison is MP4-30 vs F14 T - two first-year projects - and the McLaren has yet to eclipse last year's Ferrari in any qualifying session. In fact, the deficit is usually no less than 0.6s.

So, yeah. Alonso jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

As to the strength of the current Ferrari, I think this speaks volumes...

Image

RB11's revised sidepods strongly suggest Red Bull has already copied Ferrari's winged radiators...

Image

...and if the Masters of Aero copy you, that's a pretty good indication you're headed in the right direction.

So, maybe Forghieri was correct...
FOXSports.com, January 31, 2015 wrote:"If for three or four seasons in a row the car has the same problems, that means you are not developing in the right directions, and it's the driver's fault," [the legendary Mauro] Forghieri told the Italian website diariodelweb.it.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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bhall II wrote:Given the context of the conversation, the better comparison is MP4-30 vs F14 T - two first-year projects - and the MP4-30 has yet to eclipse last year's Ferrari in any qualifying session. In fact, the deficit is usually no less than 0.6s.
I guess you didn´t expect anyone comparing F14T and MP4-30 times. Unluckily for you I found it an interesting comparison and took my time to compare, even when we both know this is a bit absurd as track conditions change it all as well as tyres, but anycase the overall picture provide a good reference, at least to prove you wrong. Sorry but reality is reality.

Comparing MP4-30 with last season´s F14T, and comparing always Alonso laps as he drove/drive both cars (except Melbourne), in same session (Q1 mainly). Basically comparing same driver in same session with both cars.

Melbourne: not comparable, wet past season and dry this one
Malaysia: not comparable, dry this season, wet on last one
Barhein: 6 tenths slower
Spain: Pole was 3 seconds slower this season so I guess track conditions were too different.
Monaco: 2 tenths faster
Canada: exactly the same times
Austria: McH only did Q1 when track was a bit wet, not comparable
Great Britain: not comparable, wet and dry
Hungary: 4 tenths faster
Belgium: not comparable, wet and dry
Italy: 5 tenths faster


So on tracks with similar conditions (wet/dry) MP4-30 is more than a tenth faster than F14T, far from the 6 tenths slower at least you stated. Actually it´s faster on every track we can compare except Barhein. Anycase I´ll repeat this means very little as track conditions can be very different, but reality is what it is.

If you compare fastest times in qualifying F14T wins obvisously (maybe that´s what you did), because with same laptimes F14T passed to Q3 so there was more rubber on track, temperatures always increase in that period, and track conditions always improve, so it´s more fair to compare in same session

bhall II wrote:So, yeah. Alonso jumped from the frying pan into the fire.
I can agree with this, it´s been a very risky move, but we can´t judge it yet
bhall II wrote:As to the strength of the current Ferrari, I think this speaks volumes...

http://i.imgur.com/dFxW24S.jpg

RB11's revised sidepods strongly suggest Red Bull has already copied Ferrari's winged radiators...

http://i.imgur.com/BMe3RSe.jpg

...and if the Masters of Aero copy you, that's a pretty good indication you're headed in the right direction.

So, maybe Forghieri was correct...
FOXSports.com, January 31, 2015 wrote:"If for three or four seasons in a row the car has the same problems, that means you are not developing in the right directions, and it's the driver's fault," [the legendary Mauro] Forghieri told the Italian website diariodelweb.it.
Ferrari has improved a lot, they must have done something good obviously. But not enough yet

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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I don't know where you got those numbers, but I certainly hope you didn't have to pay to get them...

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

EDIT: If the next step is to argue about track conditions, I'd rather not. I've said my piece.
Last edited by bhall II on Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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bhall II wrote:I don't know where you got those numbers, but I certainly hope you didn't have to pay to get them...

http://i.imgur.com/VLjm4Jn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dJ5nvvj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ngl3GrJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jm5HNPa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/74pQSCN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LAIlj8r.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JYTQChW.jpg

EDIT: If the next step is to argue about track conditions, I'd rather not. I've said my piece.
Maybe if you´d read a bit more carefully... :roll:
Andres125sx wrote:Comparing MP4-30 with last season´s F14T, and comparing always Alonso laps as he drove/drive both cars (except Melbourne), in same session (Q1 mainly). Basically comparing same driver in same session with both cars.
And you obviously missed this too...
Andres125sx wrote:If you compare fastest times in qualifying F14T wins obvisously (maybe that´s what you did), because with same laptimes F14T passed to Q3 so there was more rubber on track, temperatures always increase in that period, and track conditions always improve, so it´s more fair to compare in same session
You´re comparing Alonso vs Button or Alonso vs Kimi, while I´m comparing Alonso vs Alonso, what IMHO is a lot more accurate if you´re trying to compare cars that have been driven by the same driver in consecutive seasons.

Comparing same driver, in same session, MP4-30 is around 1 tenth faster than F14T in average, even the links you posted show this

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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You guys are comparing last years time with this years times while ignoring tires used and temperature/weather on the race days. Non the less, this years cars are faster by what, 2 seconds? And McLaren Honda is on par with last years dud of Ferrari car. Cant say thats anything to be impressed with tbh...

Anyway, just looking at the leadership and attitude of McHonda guys, I wouldnt hold my breath for big improvements. Last year Ferrari reacted! Be it massive change in lead personel, huge investments into test beds and new facilities (AVL dynamic dynos, new Gestione Sportiva etc.) they showed they mean business and proved that on the track. It just seems to me that Mclaren wont be able to do the same. Not enough courage, money and balls to do it just yet. They will wait for 2017 as Eric Bouiller said and will likely be on back of the grid unfortunatelly next year as well.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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The performance of this year's Ferrari finally shows the stupidity of the claim that drivers actually have a significant role in car development. This year's Ferrari was developed while Alonso was there, as the last 4 cars were as well. Wouldn't you say that it's much more plausible the improvement came from the engineers that were hired and from the complete 180 degrees change in approach that happened with Ferrari's leadership?

Although Forghieri is a legend, he probably lacks the understanding of today's data acquisition systems and how useless driver feedback is for a power unit which has 3 motors and 2 generators.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Andres125sx wrote:Maybe if you´d read a bit more carefully... :roll:
I read every word. They just don't make a whole lot of sense to me. For example...
Spain: Pole was 3 seconds slower this season so I guess track conditions were too different.
Image

I can't wrap my head around this one at all...
Comparing same driver, in same session, MP4-30 is around 1 tenth faster than F14T in average, even the links you posted show this
Image

Given your metric, are we to assume that instances in which the hero hasn't outqualified his teammate are examples of supernatural intervention? Or is it more logical to understand that a car's pace is better defined by its quickest laptimes, regardless of the driver? (I maybe shouldn't have initially used the word "session," though. I meant it as Q1, Q2, and Q3 combined, not individually. But, I can see how it left the door open to a different interpretation.)

And if at all possible, I really want to avoid the "track conditions" rabbit hole. It's a non-specific, doubled-edged sword that's just gonna make a big mess if we go near it. So, if that's where we now find ourselves, let's just go ahead and agree to disagree. Fair enough?

That said, I honestly don't fault Alonso for the decision to leave. It's gotta be all sorts of difficult to watch the prime years of your career fade away with nothing to show for it. Plus, he has a truly awful manager in Flavio Briatore, a man who should be utterly ashamed of himself for the way he's handled Alonso's career. Where a competent manager tries to talk his client down from the edge, Briatore encourages the jump.

Mark Hughes wrote a good piece last December about how this all happened, and Flav's mindless advice played a starring role.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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alexx_88 wrote:The performance of this year's Ferrari finally shows the stupidity of the claim that drivers actually have a significant role in car development. This year's Ferrari was developed while Alonso was there, as the last 4 cars were as well. Wouldn't you say that it's much more plausible the improvement came from the engineers that were hired and from the complete 180 degrees change in approach that happened with Ferrari's leadership?

Although Forghieri is a legend, he probably lacks the understanding of today's data acquisition systems and how useless driver feedback is for a power unit which has 3 motors and 2 generators.
Brilliant, just had the post downvoted and marked as incorrect :lol: So which part is actually incorrect:
1. The fact that this year's car was developed in 2014.
2. The fact that the last 4 cars before it were also developed while Alonso was employed there
3. The fact that PU engineers were hired during 2014
4. The fact that Forghieri, although a legend, isn't up to speed with today's F1

PS: This post downvoting without giving the ability to reply is really, really bad and encourages a bad attitude from the members who are allowed to downvote.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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bhall II wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:Maybe if you´d read a bit more carefully... :roll:
I read every word. They just don't make a whole lot of sense to me. For example...
Spain: Pole was 3 seconds slower this season so I guess track conditions were too different.
http://i.imgur.com/kR9zTNq.jpg

I can't wrap my head around this one at all...
Comparing same driver, in same session, MP4-30 is around 1 tenth faster than F14T in average, even the links you posted show this
http://i.imgur.com/ruOWpgr.jpg
Fair enough, I made a mistake with Spain GP, but that doesn´t change the picture that much, I didn´t consider that GP when it´s 1 tenth slower. Nothing change to the point you were stating (6 tenths slower at least)
bhall II wrote:Given your metric, are we to assume that instances in which the hero hasn't outqualified his teammate are examples of supernatural intervention?
Heros? Supernatural intervention?

What are you talking about Bhall?
bhall II wrote: Or is it more logical to understand that a car's pace is better defined by its quickest laptimes, regardless of the driver?
No it´s not. Different drivers perform different on different tracks. Kimi may be faster at track A while Alonso may be faster at track B. Even car setups are different what means one can be faster at some track and slower at some other. Comparing different drivers you´re bringing more variables wich may distort car comparison, while a driver may make some mistake loosing some tenth but on any Q they usually do more than one attempt, so driver mistakes are minimized.

I can´t think of a more fair comparison than same driver driving both cars. That´s the real car comparison wich usually is not posible, but in this case it is.
bhall II wrote: Plus, he has a truly awful manager in Flavio Briatore, a man who should be utterly ashamed of himself for the way he's handled Alonso's career. Where a competent manager tries to talk his client down from the edge, Briatore encourages the jump.
You´re several seasons outdated. Alonso´s manager is Luis García Abad for at least 5-6 seasons now