Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Andres125sx
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Silent Storm wrote:You cannot compare Alonso's 5 wins with Vettel's 3 wins simply because different era and different cars.
Agree, but wonder the reason this applies to Alonso-Vettel but does not apply to Vettel-Schumacher

alexx_88
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Indeed, but on those particular races (except Hungary), the Ferrari had a significant pace advantage compared to Merc.

LionKing
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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alexx_88 wrote:Indeed, but on those particular races (except Hungary), the Ferrari had a significant pace advantage compared to Merc.
At Malaysia Ferrari and Mercedes was dead on in terms of pace. Lewis was 10 seconds behind Vettel after he passed for P2 and he finished 10 seconds behind Vettel.

alexx_88
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Didn't ferrari stop one time less than the Mercedes because it was kinder in its tyres? If outright pace is identical, then that pitstop counts for a couple of tenths per lap.

ChrisF1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Andres125sx wrote:
Silent Storm wrote:You cannot compare Alonso's 5 wins with Vettel's 3 wins simply because different era and different cars.
Agree, but wonder the reason this applies to Alonso-Vettel but does not apply to Vettel-Schumacher
Because Schumachers 96 Ferrari had a defecit to an outstanding Williams. Not sure this needs to be explained any more than it already has by me, twice, and by others.

Williams - 12/16 in 1996 - 75%
Red Bull - 9/19 in 2010 - 47%
Mercedes - 10/13 in 2015 - 77%

I think it's pretty clear that we should be comparing the 1996 and 2015 seasons, where dominance is just 2% difference at this moment in time.

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Phil
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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I have to admit, I never watched those 3 wins by Schumacher, but I'm guessing back then, the driver was a way bigger factor than he is today. I mean, years from now, people might remember Ricciardo's 3 wins with Redbull when he beat the 4 times world champion and against one of the most dominant cars in history... but being in the now and here, we all know better right? They only won because Mercedes had a meltdown on those 3 races.

Which is why I think comparing two careers of different eras to be rather pointless....
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LionKing
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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alexx_88 wrote:Didn't ferrari stop one time less than the Mercedes because it was kinder in its tyres? If outright pace is identical, then that pitstop counts for a couple of tenths per lap.
Not really, the extra stop was during safety car so Mercedes did not lose much time at all but track position.

In any case, my example of no change in 10 sec delta was after the Safety car when Lewis cleared a few cars in between him and Vettel. They both stopped the same number of times afterwards and both in clear air and many laps to go. It was a straight fight.

LionKing
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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1996 Spain was epic win in wet.

alexx_88
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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@LionKing: Yes, but Vettel had track position and controlled the race. FP pace showed that Ferrari had much better degradation, so we can assume that Vettel was ready to respond if Hamilton would've started to attack.

In any case, the point that I was trying to make is that Ferrari didn't beat the all-conquering Mercedes in 2015, but rather a tone-downed version of it that appeared because of exceptional circumstances. Just like what happened with RB last year. In this day and age, as Phil said, it's impossible to beat a car that's normally 1s / lap faster without some freak circumstances or if the conditions don't allow it to unleash its potential.

LionKing
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Goal posts keep changing. What I objected was " the Ferrari had a significant pace advantage compared to Merc" as far as Malaysian race is concerned. I did not claim Ferrari beat a 1 sec faster Mercedes there, certainly not with respect to race pace.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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If Vettel did not win that race I would have questioned his skills as a driver. The Ferrari was clearly the fastest car - God knows how Daniel managed to beat Kimi there. Vettel was basically controlling the pace.. controlling the pace. He even toyed with Daniel in the 2nd stint. He tried to give his good friend kimi a chance to pass Daniel by backing the Redbull up into his clutches.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Andres125sx
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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ChrisF1 wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
Silent Storm wrote:You cannot compare Alonso's 5 wins with Vettel's 3 wins simply because different era and different cars.
Agree, but wonder the reason this applies to Alonso-Vettel but does not apply to Vettel-Schumacher
Because Schumachers 96 Ferrari had a defecit to an outstanding Williams. Not sure this needs to be explained any more than it already has by me, twice, and by others.

Williams - 12/16 in 1996 - 75%
Red Bull - 9/19 in 2010 - 47%
Mercedes - 10/13 in 2015 - 77%

I think it's pretty clear that we should be comparing the 1996 and 2015 seasons, where dominance is just 2% difference at this moment in time.
No we shouldn´t

Different eras, different rules, different cars, different drivers, different competitors.... finding one similar stat for both seasons does not mean the comparison is straight and fair.

Silent Storm
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Does anyone think that Kimi's bad qualifying in Singapore GP is due to the upgrades brought by Ferrari to gain rear downforce? The last time they brought such upgrade was in Spain where Kimi qualified a second behind his team mate and 8 tenths was the gap in Singapore.. He might have been 4 tenths tenths slower than Seb in Spain but he was running the older sidepod plus not having fresh tyre for final run which made him a second slower.

I think that Kimi not trying the upgrades on the simulator is hurting him.. It took another 2 races to make the car comfortable to him but he was more comfortable when they brought the new front wing with slightly modified upper flaps after that he was closer to Seb.

Spa and Monza he very close to Seb even out qualifying him in Monza and they were running old spec sidepod meaning less drag and also probably less downforce I think. Whenever upgrades bring more rear downforce Seb transforms to God form and Kimi stumbles. I may be completely wrong here but what do you guys think?

Surprisingly Kimi was comfortable in both these tracks last year in that dog of car beating Alonso in qualifying in Spain and would have beat him in Singapore too before a engine problem hit him in Qualifying as Alonso's final lap in Q3 was slower than his Q2 lap and Kimi had improved in the first sector there was a chance he could have been ahead of him.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Kimi is the oldest driver on the grid and he is highly intelligent and as such I think he knows what he is doing with setup and preparation. The problem is that Vettel is just that much better than him. The battle between them is instriguing to say the least. I haven't found any strengths that Kimi has over Vettel. There just isn't anything you can point out. What we are seeing here is a great driver against a very good driver. There is no shame in it for Kimi and I think he has come to accept that.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Silent Storm
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

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Good point but what I was saying is that the gap widens between those two when upgrades are brought is it due to Vettel loving the improved rear grip and Kimi getting understeer due to that is that the reason?

Also surprising hearing you praising Vettel PZ :mrgreen:
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.