Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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ScottB
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I think you should have watched qualifying the last five races though. Webber and DC never could dominate like that. 5 poles in a row!

If Nico can keep this up for next year he can have another shot! And if he does it again in 2017 he might just slip one past Lewis.
True, but he has broadly followed the pattern that Webber and DC followed against their more illustrious teammates; seeming fairly close at first, putting up a decent fight but missing out on the title, but then falling further behind over time.

Yes Nico has done well in Quali recently, but it's mostly after Hamilton has had it in the bag; he seems to have been living a fairly hedonistic lifestyle recently, perhaps without the goal to strive for he's just not driving as well as his unstoppable form earlier in the season. Likewise with the pressure to try and beat Lewis released Nico is doing better and making less mistakes.

In any case, I don't think Nico will ever beat Lewis to a title. On his day he can, just as when the stars aligned Webber could beat Vettel or DC could beat Hakkinen, but to a title? I don't see it.

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Jordan44
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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History is just repeating itself. Nico Rosberg has finished the year stronger in all seasons as team mates. Lewis has a better start and middle to the year. This will have no bearings on next year. The reset button is hit.

Moose
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J0rd4n wrote:History is just repeating itself. Nico Rosberg has finished the year stronger in all seasons as team mates. Lewis has a better start and middle to the year. This will have no bearings on next year. The reset button is hit.
You realise that Lewis was trailing Nico all the way up until the last few races last year, right?

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Jordan44
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Moose wrote:
J0rd4n wrote:History is just repeating itself. Nico Rosberg has finished the year stronger in all seasons as team mates. Lewis has a better start and middle to the year. This will have no bearings on next year. The reset button is hit.
You realise that Lewis was trailing Nico all the way up until the last few races last year, right?
As a result of bad luck and Nico crashing into him. This was in qualifying anyway. The middle of the season was an outlier last year but the issues he experienced like Hungary/Germany didn't help.

Cold Fussion
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I don't think Nico will ever beat Hamilton to a championship in the same car but I don't think the comparison to Webber is at all fair. Webber was never competitive with Vettel, even in 2010 Vettel suffered more technical problems and worse still, Webber never managed to even achieve second in the championship despite the RB6,RB7 and RB9 being the dominant car on pace. If Maldonado was in the second Mercedes Nico would be a double world champion, that's not a legitimate claim for someone like Webber.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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The only good thing I have to say right now, it at least Wolff and Lowe have the guts to own up to the fact that they didn't want to let Nico and Lewis actually race. At some point you would think they'd realize A 1-2 finish is mealiness if you alliterate the fansbase, because they know you aren't letting the boys race.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121825
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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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dans79 wrote:The only good thing I have to say right now, it at least Wolff and Lowe have the guts to own up to the fact that they didn't want to let Nico and Lewis actually race.
Ey? I suggest you read your own linked article again. Putting either on an alternative strategy would have given one an advantage (through strategy) over the other, potentially. The only thing he is saying here is that a driver needs to battle it out on the same strategy, as long as it doesn't interfere with the 1-2. Nothing about not letting them actually race.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Phil wrote:
dans79 wrote:The only good thing I have to say right now, it at least Wolff and Lowe have the guts to own up to the fact that they didn't want to let Nico and Lewis actually race.
Ey? I suggest you read your own linked article again. Putting either on an alternative strategy would have given one an advantage (through strategy) over the other, potentially. The only thing he is saying here is that a driver needs to battle it out on the same strategy, as long as it doesn't interfere with the 1-2. Nothing about not letting them actually race.
I don't need to re-read it again, because they did it before twice last year, in Bahrain & Spain. I think they did it a third time as well, but i can't remember. Check out the direct quote from Wolff below, they put the second driver on an alternative strategy to give him a chance to win.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/06/2 ... pit-stops/

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/201867/1/w ... -race.html
Putting the two drivers onto different strategies at their first tyre stops was also not designed to keep them apart on track, according to Wolff, but something that had been mulled over during pre-race planning meetings.

“We would never have split them, we want them to race,” he repeated, “We knew that the second car could only win if we offset it on the strategy, but both cars were on a strategy to win the race.

“We discussed the strategy in a meeting this morning, and the two strategies - with prime in the middle and prime at the end - were a couple of tenths off at the end of the race, so there was no good or worse strategy. They were both nearly equal in terms of race time.
Read more at http://www.crash.net/f1/news/201867/1/w ... jKVk5em.99

So apparently Merc has gone from giving bot drivers a chance to win the race, to hold station so we get another stupid 1-2.
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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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What is in the article still doesn't match what you are claiming - essentially that Wolff and Lowe don't want to let them race. This is not true.

As for the variable strategies - yes, they have given the 2nd driver the choice of an alternative strategy last year, but IMO the situation last year or on certain tracks was different. First of all - the gap to any competitor was larger last year and secondly, not every race track offers the same possibilities. Last year, the 'alternative' strategy was often a different middle stint - i.e. leading car usually on OOP, the alternative strategy being a OPO (to give the 2nd car a better chance at the end with an offset in the middle stint).

In Mexico this was pretty much out of the question since there wasn't enough data available (due to wet/slippery surface in the practice sessions so very limited data). In Brazil, I think Hamilton simply came too late with his request for an alternative strategy. If he wanted it - the time to go on it was before the first pit stops. But from what I recall, both Mercedes were already on a OPP strategy (which then turned into a OPPP). Not much room for an alternative strategy there, unless Hamilton would have gone onto a OPO (which at the time was still going to be a 2 stop, but the Ferraris stopped quite early, so if Hamilton had stayed out longer, he would dropped behind the Ferrari, or at least that's what the team feared).

I honestly don't think it's a big deal. Yes, as a Hamilton supporter, I would have loved to see him on some alternative strategy, but quite frankly, if he somehow would have lucked into a better strategy than Rosberg, I'd be furious as Rosberg. He might not have been quicker in the race, but he did out qualify Hamilton on Saturday and as the leading car on track, he earned the right for the better strategy. IMO, had the roles been reserved and Hamilton in front, I wouldn't have wanted it any differently as well.

I think both drivers being on the same strategy is fairest and let them dice it out on track in equal conditions when both are driving for the same positions. That's IMO the only way you can go if equality is your goal as a team and you don't want any controversy post race if it goes well vs. bad for the other type situation.

Having said that, I understand Hamilton's frustration too. He felt he was quicker but couldn't attempt anything on this track - as was the case last year - and he was willing to take a gamble on what was essentially going to be the worse strategy but attempt (the impossible to) make it work due to driving faster. Even if chances are it wouldn't have worked out anyway. But I guess, as close as it was - he should have been quicker on Saturday and even if sometimes, it doesn't turn out like that - some tracks just don't lend themselves well for overtakes when you're in an identical car. But that was never going to be a surprise - it was the same last year...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Jordan44
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Why the pendulum may have swinged in Nico's favour in qualifying:

One senior figure in the Mercedes team said the only difference he could see in the data was that Rosberg has improved in the braking phase into the corner. He can tolerate more rear slip on entry than before, which is allowing him to be more aggressive and winning him time from the entry to apex. This is only gaining hundredths, not 10ths. But when there is only 0.08secs between the drivers over a lap, as in Brazil, that could be decisive. More at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/34828754

Also the drivers can choose since Singapore between two wheel suspension geometries. This would open more flexibility for the setup. It was not done to help Rosberg, but part of the normal developing of the car. Since the drivers can choose between these two versions Rosberg is doing better. More info here: http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 11612.html

dans79
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Phil wrote:What is in the article still doesn't match what you are claiming - essentially that Wolff and Lowe don't want to let them race. This is not true.
I have to disagree.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121825
He added the only alternative open to Hamilton when he made his complaint "would have been 10 seconds down, so it would have risked his P2 against Sebastian. Therefore, it was out of the question"
This is not letting them race, it's holding station so they get a 1-2. This type of inflexibility is going to bit them in the butt next year when Ferrari inevitably gets closer.
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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I see what you mean, I just don't see it as them wanting to "hold station". It's just the nature of Brazil that let it pan out the way it did. Had it been any other track where the DRS zone would have been more effective (for two identical cars), I'm sure we would have seen a dicey move for the lead. No doubt, next year if there is a competitor close enough to the Mercedes, I think we will see them go alternative strategy more often. Or not... no doubt, at Ferrari, there seems to be a larger difference between Vettel and Kimi, so Kimi will be (like this year) put on many gambles that might see them compromise his position while trying to force or create pressure on the front runners. This is their advantage. I think the fact that Hamilton and Rosberg seem to be so close (and Mercedes's priority on equality) will ultimately make it difficult for them just like it did in 2007 for McLaren...

Somehow, I prefer it that way to be honest. I wouldn't want Hamilton to be overtaken while in the lead because a 'gamble' lucks Rosberg into the lead. Vice versa, I wouldn't want it the other way around either. I like them having to dice it out in equal circumstances. I just think it's more 'genuine'.

Sure, if they were battling each other like two drivers of different teams would, then it'd be even better. You know, hands off, Lewis side of the garage vs. Rosbergs side. But in reality, this would never work, as if you have that - then they will self destruct to the point the person in 3rd will always profit. I.e. Hamilton pitting early to attempt an undercut (that then works out), but then having to run longer that will ultimately compromise him later on. The possibilities are endless. It would be great for the fans no doubt, but for Mercedes... not so much. :/
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Am I going crazy or is Hamilton in the new Zoolander 2 trailer?



At 22 seconds into the trailer as a cameo appearance...


EDIT: Heh, he is, I RULE! 8) :twisted: :mrgreen:

Image
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

dfontyn
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I think they had marching orders up to Niko having secured the #2 spot so Merc can claim a 1 2.
Lets see if at the last race he out qualifies Niko and bearing no technical gremlins wins comfortably.
fonty

skoop
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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according to sky (http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12472/ ... be-dropped) toto said that the rivalry between nico and lewis are the teams biggest weakness and if they won't stop they'll rethink their driver line up.