Sauber F1 Team 2015

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sauberfan
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Which sources do you have?According to the german AMS the C34 is easy to drive und the car will get more updates in Bahrein!

n04h f1
n04h f1
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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I think Sauber definitely got luck this year. Red Bull, McLaren, and Force India were regularly in the points last year, but this year all three of them are struggling. Sauber needs to maximize on their advantage in the early races before Red Bull and McLaren fix their issues and FI get their b-spec car. I honestly don't see how it's possible for Sauber to maintain the gap to their rivals in car development.

giantfan10
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Vasconia wrote:
Miguel wrote:It was good to see another double points finish, yes! Both cars even made it to Q3, which bodes well for tracks like Montmelo and Silverstone. I was less than impressed by their performance in Sepang, though. All in all, given the strength of the Ferrari engine and the struggles of Renault and Honda, it seems their nightmare 2014 is behind them.

So what will be Sauber's final WCC position? Will they score over 50 points? Surprisingly RBR doesn't look massively faster than them, so we could see some nice battles as long as the brake/PU/whatever issues aren't sorted by Milton Keynes' team. Between Lotus, Toro Rosso & Sauber, the midfield will be exciting. Whether RBR, McLaren and Force India solve their issues is another story...
At least they will battle with them one more race. It should be a totally different situation in Barcelona where I expect to see a great improvement from RB and Mclaren. Any other thing would be an enormous surprise.
i honestly dont get the optimism about mclaren.... nothing i have seen so far this year convinces me that they will even be competitive in the midfield this year..then there are penalties for using more thn 4 engines that will be coming up soon for that team... yet i keep reading on this forum that they will be battling at the front soon.... not likely this year

skoop
skoop
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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giantfan10 wrote: i honestly dont get the optimism about mclaren.... nothing i have seen so far this year convinces me that they will even be competitive in the midfield this year..then there are penalties for using more thn 4 engines that will be coming up soon for that team... yet i keep reading on this forum that they will be battling at the front soon.... not likely this year
i don't expect them (mclaren) to be fighting for wins this season, too. but i do think they'll fight for points from mid season on. they'll simply outdevelop the smaller teams like manor/sauber and maybe even toro rosso and force india or lotus. just becouse they have a huge ressource advantage.
so sauber really needs to grab all the points they can get now. maybe they can keep fighting for 9th and 10th place in the races

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Sniffit
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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sauberfan wrote:Which sources do you have?According to the german AMS the C34 is easy to drive und the car will get more updates in Bahrein!
Have you watched the races? The only thing keeping Sauber afloat is the engine (and engine troubles of renault).

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outer_bongolia
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Sniffit wrote:Have you watched the races? The only thing keeping Sauber afloat is the engine (and engine troubles of renault).
And bad Force India? And being better than Maurissia and McLaren at the moment? I would say racing is as much about taking advantage of the situation as everything else. And kudos to Sauber for grasping the opportunity.

Even they are admitting the 4th position is a fluke, and their hope is finishing the season 6th.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/04/13/ ... were-back/
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
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Sniffit
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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outer_bongolia wrote: And bad Force India? And being better than Maurissia and McLaren at the moment? I would say racing is as much about taking advantage of the situation as everything else. And kudos to Sauber for grasping the opportunity.

Even they are admitting the 4th position is a fluke, and their hope is finishing the season 6th.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/04/13/ ... were-back/
Which does not contradict what I said.

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Vasconia
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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giantfan10 wrote: i honestly dont get the optimism about mclaren.... nothing i have seen so far this year convinces me that they will even be competitive in the midfield this year..then there are penalties for using more thn 4 engines that will be coming up soon for that team... yet i keep reading on this forum that they will be battling at the front soon.... not likely this year
In my case I dont get the total pessimism about Mclaren. They have improved a lot in only three races, and I expect a little improvement in this race too and much bigger one in Barcelona. They still have 16 races to revert the situation and although I dont think that they will win any race I think that the performance in the second half of the season will be totally different.

Sauber has not money, I dont expect them to introduce important updates after Barcelona.

Jonnycraig
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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And here we go again...

Turun Sanomat claim Sauber have yet to reach a settlement with Sutil and may well find themselves back in court before Spain.

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turbof1
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Jonnycraig wrote:And here we go again...

Turun Sanomat claim Sauber have yet to reach a settlement with Sutil and may well find themselves back in court before Spain.
Not far fetched to see him doing that, since vd Garde was that successful. Would also take the blaming towards vd Garde away to be honest; having 1 driver trying to force his right through at the risk of sinking the team is morally debatable, but having 2 drivers doing it does remove any doubt on who is to blame.
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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I never thought GvdG wasn't in his right do demand compensation and act, the manner in which it was handled and he chose to act though was repulsive and shameful, and quite frankly, unsportive and un-F1. I mean, it is F1 we're talking here, the pinnacle of motorsport. It doesn't get much more exclusive and 'glamourous' than F1.

I have far more respect for Sutil in this sense because atleast Adrian is trying to solve things 'in the background'. vdG did not really handle this like a gentleman [perhaps that was more due to mister Boekhoorn]. It was a circus act and vdG turned himself into a clown. Acting like an annoyed brat, even if the brat has the right for compensation regarding the unfairness that was done to him.

It's true that Sauber partially brought this upon themselves, becuase well lets face it, they did make the right decision with the company's future in mind, but, they treated their 'personel', that being, vdG and Sutil, quite terribly. So financially, they should have compensated and acted accordingly towards Sutil and VdG, which they did not do - atleast, contractually wise.

Either way though, oddly enough, Sauber got a whole lot of publicity with this 'saga'. I can't see this not having a certain benefit for them, and the fact they have a far better racing position this season will grant them a stronger financial prospect.

I don't think Sutil has to worry about his money anymore, i think they're simply still negotiating on how to manage paying him off. Perhaps they're trying to reach an agreement that they'll first make sure GvdG has been paid off completely and then they can pay off Sutil sufficiently, as I could imagine they're not having enough cashflow to pay for development + gvdG + sutil all at once.

Obviously it would be in Sauber's interest to keep developing the '15 contender, which will guarantee them better results for the rest of the season; which, in the end, will grant them better income. At the same, this would mean they can't immediately pay off Sutil [or VdG], but, in the end, Sutil could then demand a higher net payoff due to improving his bargaining position.

Could compare it to buying a new car on monthly payment. The client can't pay for the car the price all at once, but he is able to make a big deposit and pay the rest of the car throughout a monthly payment untill the car has been paid off.
The car company will have to give the client a car, and not get paid in full immediately. In the longer haul though, they will recieve more money. It's either no sale, and no money - Or sell, and accept the client's cashflow restrictions but in the end recieve more money.
In this case, the client is Sauber and the seller/car company Sutil.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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Phil
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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turbof1 wrote:Not far fetched to see him doing that, since vd Garde was that successful. Would also take the blaming towards vd Garde away to be honest; having 1 driver trying to force his right through at the risk of sinking the team is morally debatable, but having 2 drivers doing it does remove any doubt on who is to blame.
Manoah2u already covered most of it - the rest, well, there's a long topic behind us to go read-back up on it. Sutils case isn't much different to Vd Gardes, with the exception that he probably is way more limited in what he can fight for in front of a court, since lawyers are expensive. But since VdG was that successfull (mainly because he could put the team under pressure when it was important; that being the beginning of the season and on the race weekend), he might think otherwise, though he won't have that luxury.

I'm really not sure what there is more to add; Saubers position is well documented. They had a strategy plan for 2015 that didn't pan out the way it needed to; The important driver that was important for their survival had an accident (Bianchi/Ferrari engine deal), so they needed to change the plan; in that sense, Sutil and VdG didn't work anymore. So Nasr and Ericsson came in. Is it morally correct to terminate agreement on the basis that the team is in real jeopardy in getting to races and fighting for survival? Take your pick. There's really not more to see or say here. The world just ain't black or white sometimes.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Manoah2u
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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+2.

To be honest, really, i don't think Sutil and GvdG were treated that bad, to be honest. Let's face it, their expiration dates in F1 come closing in rapidly and neither of them have really shown anything worthy in F1 or classes outside F1, really. Neither impressed. And let's be honest here, it's not that both are bad drivers, but GvdG never really was in F1 purely of his talent, rather than his/his sugardaddy's wallet. That would make him simply a paydriver.
I rate Sutil higher, even though i don't rate his racecraft quite impressive either.

I haven't seen that amount of 'backing' and 'siding' towards Jaime Alguersuari, whom was ditched and treated in a far, far, far worse manner compared to GvdG. His career was over immediately 'simply' over not complying with Mr. Marko. I find that far more sickening and repulsive compared to the non-excistant F1 future career of GvdG, whilst Alguersuari had his F1 career fully in front of him untill he was unwilling to let Vettel pass.

I can think of other drivers that got 'sided' whilst being of better level. Kobayashi, for example. Was Petrov that bad? How about Bruno Senna [even if he wasn't as good as his uncle, did he really get fair chance?]. Nelson Piquet Jr? The way Sergio Perez was put aside by Mclaren despite above-decent results for an uninteresting rookie that only got his seat because of a huge Whitmarsh mess?

I can think of many situations where [contracted] drivers were treated far worse than mr. VdG yet did not act in such a unsportive manner.

Either way, things go as they go, simple as that. There are many drivers who don't make the cut or simply are 'ditched'. All in all, they get compensation, so really, what's the big issue?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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Vasconia
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Manoah2u wrote:+2.


I haven't seen that amount of 'backing' and 'siding' towards Jaime Alguersuari, whom was ditched and treated in a far, far, far worse manner compared to GvdG. His career was over immediately 'simply' over not complying with Mr. Marko. I find that far more sickening and repulsive compared to the non-excistant F1 future career of GvdG, whilst Alguersuari had his F1 career fully in front of him untill he was unwilling to let Vettel pass.
Agree with this, what happened to Algursuari wast absolutely embarrasing for F1. Mr. Marko is a guy who should be out of F1 and from any company.

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bdr529
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Re: Sauber F1 Team 2015

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Manoah2u wrote:I never thought GvdG wasn't in his right do demand compensation and act, the manner in which it was handled and he chose to act though was repulsive and shameful, and quite frankly, unsportive and un-F1. I mean, it is F1 we're talking here, the pinnacle of motorsport. It doesn't get much more exclusive and 'glamourous' than F1.
Here we go again with the VdG is "shameful", and "repulsive", that's a new one, usually it's disrespectful.
Sauber had signed 4 drivers and from what I read sometime ago the had even signed Bianchi the weekend of his crash,
that's 4-5 drivers for 2 seats. and in doing so, Sauber put everyone of those drivers in the position to take legal action.
If you don't like the way VdG acted then blame Sauber they signed the contracts they started the ball rolling.

As for the disrespectful VgD here's what he had to say about that day in Australia
"I walked to (team manager) Beat (Zehnder) and he shoved me a race suit and shoes and said 'here'. I dressed in the garage to have the seat fitting, but the pedals were set up for (Marcus) Ericsson. Nothing could be changed.
"They didn't adjust the foam -- nothing. Just two mechanics, as everyone else was sent away. That was very weird, because normally they would be there, working.


I don't know what the team told those guys, but if they are honest, they would acknowledge that they only received their salaries because of our early payment in 2014. And then suddenly we are the enemies, which is of course (expletive)," said van der Garde.
Manoah2u wrote:Could compare it to buying a new car on monthly payment. The client can't pay for the car the price all at once, but he is able to make a big deposit and pay the rest of the car throughout a monthly payment untill the car has been paid off.
The car company will have to give the client a car, and not get paid in full immediately. In the longer haul though, they will recieve more money. It's either no sale, and no money - Or sell, and accept the client's cashflow restrictions but in the end recieve more money.
In this case, the client is Sauber and the seller/car company Sutil.

That seams like a lot of work, how about just not signing 4 drivers for 2 seats in the first place