Lotus F1 Team 2015

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SiLo
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Re: Lotus E23 Mercedes

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bdr529 wrote:
itix wrote: They have rotated sponsors for ages. It is probably just the Lotus way of things. Everyone gets their 15 minutes hahaha. I am going to guess that they have some form of standard sponsor deal that they have ready to present to customers.
I think you mean the Enstone way of things
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/ ... ne4kks.jpg
one of my favourite F1 cars of all time. just love how it looks.
Felipe Baby!

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itix
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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bdr529 wrote:
itix wrote: They have rotated sponsors for ages. It is probably just the Lotus way of things. Everyone gets their 15 minutes hahaha. I am going to guess that they have some form of standard sponsor deal that they have ready to present to customers.
I think you mean the Enstone way of things
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/ ... ne4kks.jpg
Can't see the pic... maybe proxy issues or similar.
...but yeah I suppose you could say that.

I can't comment on exactly how the deal between Lotus cars and Lotus F1 works... that would be something someone at either Lotus cars or Lotus F1 would have to answer. I'd still say that if that is true, Lotus cars are getting a pretty good sponsorship deal considering they aren't making much fuzz themselves these days... (maybe with the new Frenchie they'll get actual stuff done that isn't ideas in the clouds the likes Bahr's). More money has been paid for title sponsorship deals for that long a period.
Massive rally fan... have fallen out of love with F1 yet again and have thus migrated

Richard
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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It isn't looking good in Venezuala at the moment with food rationing to manage shortages. I can't see the Venezuala supporting F1 via Maldonardo for much longer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/venezuela-shortages/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/ ... BX20150121
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-32357849

Sevach
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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In the Brazilian press there are rumours that Renault is buying 51% of Lotus.
I will post the article here but keep in mind that it's in portuguese.

http://grandepremio.uol.com.br/f1/notic ... 6-diz-site.

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iotar__
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Sevach wrote:In the Brazilian press there are rumours that Renault is buying 51% of Lotus.
I will post the article here but keep in mind that it's in portuguese.

http://grandepremio.uol.com.br/f1/notic ... 6-diz-site.
I hope they're keeping the engine :wink:. 51% as a start, who's going to run it, joint venture, Bell, lord forbid Prost or maybe Flavio :shock: ?

If true predicted end to BWM MK 2: wasting spectacularly their best season through bad management, failure season or two and retirement. BWM got more things right and tripped on KERS and financial crisis, Lotus had no such excuses only ego of the owner surrounded by yes-men. The other 50% is obviously the way F1 is financed (McLaren getting huge money for 2015 will be a good example) but that was constant and independent from mistake after mistake. No sympathy for the people that didn't want to win, like in Germany 2013.

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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Image “The force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded”: [Obi Wan Kenobi]

ajprice
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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kptaylor
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Another crash for MAL and another outperformance in FP2 by GRO after not having run in FP1. Hope Renault buys the team and dumps MAL...

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iotar__
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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kptaylor wrote:Another crash for MAL and another outperformance in FP2 by GRO after not having run in FP1. Hope Renault buys the team and dumps MAL...
Crash in practice means little and he was 0,2 s behind RG (elite) and Bottas (quicker Williams), out-qualified quicker cars: Vettel, Hulk and Kvyat and was within a tenth from Massa and you want him fired? Drivers are the least of Lotus' problems, driver management on the other hand is a big one. Even in bad 2013 Williams Maldonado had some great races. Example: he made a mistake at the pit entry (was it China?) but it was caused partly by the pressure of inventive undercuts strategy against team-mates. They had no one to chase or defend against so they messed it up themselves #-o .

The weird news I read somewhere (rumours) is it's not certain if Renault wants to buy 100% of the team, if it's only a fraction and current management stays and influences the team it would be a disaster: bad management, bad chassis, bad engine. They need a full and proper change immediately not some half-hearted effort in stages. First step: firing 4/5 current team principals, not Chester though, it would lower average F1 experience of technical team by 2,23 years :shock:.

ESPImperium
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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From what I've heard, it isn't verbatim, but i must say it is plausible. Renault are to buy over Lotus, taking a 51% stake as stated. They will pay off Lotus creditors in full in 2016 where the team will be a bit of a mouthful, and a bit bemusing to say the least. Lotus Renault GP-Mercedes. Its like going back to 2011 with the Lotus Renault thing for the Chassis payments to be linear (like what BMW Sauber-Ferrari did in 2010, Marussia-Virgin in 2011 and Manor-Marussia this year) and undisturbed. This will bring the team around €135m to the team, however it will enable the team to take the €55m in historical payments from FOM that Renault are entitled to every year. This is all fine and well, with the Total money and other various companies who wish to sponsor the team, the team will have a healthy €250m budget on the chassis side and €85m on the engine side.

However... The sticking point. Ferrari/Toro Rosso/Pirelli have Monza, Mercedes generally have a German GP, Red Bull have a GP at their own track, Honda at Suzuka. All the British based teams have a GP at Silverstone, Haas will have an American GP. Other sponsors are subsidising their home race (Petronas-Malaysia, Telmex/Claro-Mexico) so with all this going on, Renault want Bernie/FOM to bring back a French GP in 2017 or 2018 at the latest. Bernie doesn't want to go to Magny Cours, as there isn't really anything going on there, and he doesn't seem to want a race at the track he owns in Paul Ricard as again, nothing here to see. I don't buy the Paul Ricard line as the nearest city is Marseilles, about an hours drive away i think by looking at Google Maps, a city with a airport that is connected well to Europe via various different air carriers.

The problem... I see it as this, What track would be dropped for a French GP, and who is going to pay for it? Mercedes didn't support the German GP this year did they? And lets face it Bernie already charges the teams €150,000 per day (Discounted by 50%) for a day at Paul Ricard. Also, the other thing i am looking at is, if Bernie wants a Tyre War in F1 again, will Michelin want a home race, and there is also pressure mounting from the FIA for a home race for them as well to suit their 'needs' as well as they have to ship out to one of 21 other counties to see a race.

Solutions? There are two, one is Le Mans Bugatti, however the ACO and FOM are really not on terms, never have been and never will be. The ACO and the FIA are on terms, but its more of a constructive working relationship. Also Le Mans has the same problem as Magny Cours in 'nothing here to see mate', hours away from any major city. The solution i see could be a new track, on the outskirts of Paris, a nice little €400m facility, and if the French Government, with Renault and potentially Citroen/Peugeot also paying into it as well with a few other French companies, it could be done... BUT, and this is the big but here, Parisienne Planning Law is notoriously full of red tape. It has taken the French Federation Tennis 8 years to get through the red tape and two enquiries for the expansion of Roland Garros, the location of the French Open Tennis Championships. And if the land could be bought that a track could be built on, Paris Planning Laws would take interest on every little bit of the track from the radius of every corner. This track would have to be able to be used by many other series of motorsport as well, it would have to be economically viable, not just another french white elephant.

And thats where i think Renault are at right now. They are looking for assurances there will be a French GP, probably in Paul Ricard in the short term and then to a Paris Track. However, there are politics both in and out of F1 at the present time for this to happen.

I do think there will be a Renault F1 in F1, but it will be a deal that is done late on this year. A deal that will see them use Maldanado/Grosjean in 2016 with Mercedes power, but with a long winded name. The return of the Yellow machines will happen, its just a matter of ironing out of the details, i think the debt plans have been organised, the takeover plan is in place, the documents are ready to be signed. It just all hinges on the French GP and Michelin coming back into F1 as i think Renault are pushing for two things, and if they get one in the medium term they will be happy.

Remember, the cars internally to Lotus still have a working title on the design boards, and their car parts still have the R prefix from when Renault were last in the sport. As this years car is known internally as the R35 with the public name being the E23.

However, in the sidelines of this story, or in parallel to it is the Red Bull-Renault/Red Bull-Mercedes gate. I see the Red Bull-Mercedes happening, however Renault will tie Toro Rosso into a long term customer deal (Marko has been asking Honda if they could supply STR as he wants a complete break from Renault) and will only allow Red Bull to take Mercedes Power in 2017. All of this is running as a whole story. The next two weeks will be key in this story, who knows, it may run until the end of the year as a rolling media catastrophe for F1. Or if it is finished soon, the heat will be on Mclaren-Honda and how rotten they are.

drunkf1fan
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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iotar__ wrote:
kptaylor wrote:Another crash for MAL and another outperformance in FP2 by GRO after not having run in FP1. Hope Renault buys the team and dumps MAL...
Crash in practice means little and he was 0,2 s behind RG (elite) and Bottas (quicker Williams), out-qualified quicker cars: Vettel, Hulk and Kvyat and was within a tenth from Massa and you want him fired? Drivers are the least of Lotus' problems, driver management on the other hand is a big one. Even in bad 2013 Williams Maldonado had some great races. Example: he made a mistake at the pit entry (was it China?) but it was caused partly by the pressure of inventive undercuts strategy against team-mates. They had no one to chase or defend against so they messed it up themselves #-o .

The weird news I read somewhere (rumours) is it's not certain if Renault wants to buy 100% of the team, if it's only a fraction and current management stays and influences the team it would be a disaster: bad management, bad chassis, bad engine. They need a full and proper change immediately not some half-hearted effort in stages. First step: firing 4/5 current team principals, not Chester though, it would lower average F1 experience of technical team by 2,23 years :shock:.

One thing worth mentioning is that the China 'mistake' was 99% likely a brake by wire failure. For one thing his pace was awesome right up to that pitstop, out of the pits he had a Kimi style random spin and also had the performance to barely pass Button with Button able to get back past him once or twice. His pace before the pitstop he would have breezed by the Mclarens. He was also braking early and had poor acceleration out of the corners. His brake by wire went LONG before Button smacked into him. You could partially excuse Button for hitting him if he braked earlier however Button had followed him for multiple corners and should have already known he would brake early so still 97% Button's fault.

Anyway brake by wire which has also failed since a couple of times for both of them IIRC both explains the lock up and the spin and the lack of pace before Button hit him perfectly. Trouble with brake by wire is almost every time it's gone it's as you start braking presuming you'd have full braking power but it's not there. Rosberg in Bahrain was it, braked for corner and just went on, he had a huge run off area and had time to adjust brakes for the next corner. BBW goes as you enter the pit lane and it fits perfectly what happened to Maldonado in that race.

Not a big fan of his in general, some of his behaviour in track is appalling but it seems so obvious what happened in that race and everyone seemed to miss it. This was IIRC Maldonado passing people and moving up what around 7th on the grid and was in an instant struggling to pass a Mclaren and absolutely on one wondered why that was happening.

Much like Alonso passing Sainz in Hungary, commentators talked about great Mclaren performance for a few laps before they realised Sainz was dropping away stupidly fast and his mgu-k had also gone. This year a car fighting on track with Mclaren is a pretty glaring sign of a engine failure(excluding Manor and Sauber).

He's done pretty well this year, his race craft has been vastly improved however his bad luck has compensated pretty well. A couple mistakes in one race, sure, even the contact on the outside of turn 1 was frankly just a racing incident, speeding in the pitlane was stupid but still minor. When he hasn't been hit in the first few corners and gets going his pace has been generally good until/when that Lotus fails. I'd say he's been better in race than Grosjean this year but has lacked in qualifying where Grosjean is owning him.

bill shoe
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Good discussion about Renault, Lotus, et al. I'm pondering the wisdom of a large corporation choosing to invest in an F1 team right now.

There was a recent news article on F1T about team financials. It gave estimates for total team budgets and the sources of the team budgets. The sources were divided into these categories: Sponsors, Partners, and FOM. The estimates seemed generally plausible, maybe a little high but maybe I'm just naïve. Anyway basically in the ballpark.

The estimates included a staggering bit of information: All teams make a large loss. Here's another way of putting it: If the table in that article was created according to generally accepted accounting principles, then the column labeled "Partners" would instead be labeled "Loss".

Not rocket science. I work for a large company. This company has shareholders, a.k.a. "Partners". The purpose of my company is to give money to the shareholders on a regular basis. This is how companies are supposed to work. In the F1 paddock, people with money or control of other people's money (corporations), think it is reasonable to work in the other direction: The purpose of companies is to lose money every year and to therefore require money from "Partners" to the company. There is no indication of this money flow changing in the foreseeable future.

The world is not in a severe recession at the moment. High-end international motorsports have been stable and growing for quite some time. Formula 1 teams did not recently lose some gigantic lawsuit or something like that. And yet all of the teams, without exception, are losing money. This is a bizarrely quiet yet significant bit of information regarding the financial judgement of Formula 1 teams in general, and of companies that choose to invest in Formula 1.

Team Budget Estimation Reveals Income Spread
http://www.f1technical.net/news/20123

trinidefender
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Congratulations Lotus and Romain Grosjean. Think he well deserved that 3rd place. It is welcome to see especially with the financial problems.

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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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Analysis: The real heroes of the Belgian Grand Prix

Image


The on-track challenges at Spa separate the men from the boys, but the real heroes of last week's Belgian Grand Prix were not driving F1 cars, says Jonathan Noble.

No Belgian Grand Prix weekend is complete without its fair share of marvelling at Formula 1 drivers as they keep their right foot flat to the floor through corners like Eau Rouge and Blanchimont.

To see the masters at work is a privilege, and when even some of them admit that things have got a bit too hairy at times as rear tyre traction breaks on the run up the hill to Raidillon, you come to appreciate the bravery out there.

But, for me, the most impressive performance had nothing to do with keeping that pedal to the metal at 180mph. Instead, it was all about team spirit – plus a passion for racing to overcome the odds and deliver a result that left a lot of the paddock chuffed to bits.

Step up Team Enstone which, in its latest guise as Lotus, showed that you cannot keep a good bunch of individuals down. For to deliver a podium finish at Spa against the backdrop of all its off-track troubles was nothing short of sensational.

For months now, Lotus has been battling its money worries: as a bid by its bosses to get the balance sheet in order has resulted in the purse strings being tightened up massively.

And as negotiations with Renault about a takeover have moved on, so too has the money slowed down even more.

As Spa-star Romain Grosjean readily confessed in Hungary: "When you are thinking about selling the team you won't put any more money in, because it's all loss. It's just a bit of a waiting situation."

That waiting situation was left the wolf at the door: with creditors chasing payment for unpaid bills and Lotus chiefs fighting fires from many directions.

There have been legal threats. There was the delay in getting the tyres at the Hungarian Grand Prix. And then at Spa, there was the arrival of bailiffs who impounded the cars and left the team unable to depart on Sunday night.

For some teams, facing such financial headaches – and knowing that there is no guarantee a pay cheque is ever going to come – would result in a mass exodus of staff, or at best a fair share of moaning and moping.

But Team Enstone has never been just 'some' team. Through the various guises as Toleman, Benetton, Renault and Lotus, there has been a hardcore group of people that share a rage for racing and success in F1.

Keeping your chin up is always easier when things are going well – and its wins record and title success are testament to its quality. But to have knuckled down against the current backdrop of troubles and do what it did in Belgium last weekend was hugely impressive.
No development

Do not forget that there has been almost zero car development this season, so the team has been powerless to bring in new updates with better performance – even though such items would be ready to roll as soon as someone was willing to pull out a cheque.

A new front wing, tried out briefly in practice but not raced, is the only major update that has come on tap so far.

But things go beyond lack of development too, for the team's faced compromises by its lack of parts too.

It only has three gearboxes for the season, which means that at each race one of its drivers has to use his race gearbox. That leads to extra mileage and the risk of potential gearbox problems – which is exactly what happened to Grosjean in Spa as he was moved five places down the grid when he needed a new unit slotted in.

As trackside operations director Alan Permane told Sky after the Belgian GP: "We have had a very, very difficult season.

"This is the worst season we have had financially and we have scrimped and scraped for parts. To get the cars on the track is a massive effort each week. So to be able to stick it on the podium is just unbelievable."

Perhaps the only frustration for the Team Enstone core is just what could have been achieved this season if it had been allowed a more normal development rate? Could it have been more regularly on the podium? No doubt.

Speaking later on Sunday night in the paddock about the potential, Permane said: "It is a very, very good car. It seems to work well on these downforce levels, so places like here at Spa, and Austria – where there are lower drag level settings.

"This is why hopefully Monza will be kind for us. If we could have developed it like any other car, we would have a good chance of finishing higher up where we are."

Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel though, and Renault chiefs understand that if Team Enstone can deliver results like Spa now, then it would be logical to suggest the input of manufacturer money would bring even better things.

"This result was fantastic," said Permane. "For us at Enstone, it really will make a big difference to us. It shows we are united. We are a good racing team. And it shows we can still do it."

Perfect words for why Team Enstone deserves an even better future.
via motorsport.com
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Cold Fussion
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Re: Lotus F1 Team 2015

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bill shoe wrote:Good discussion about Renault, Lotus, et al. I'm pondering the wisdom of a large corporation choosing to invest in an F1 team right now.

There was a recent news article on F1T about team financials. It gave estimates for total team budgets and the sources of the team budgets. The sources were divided into these categories: Sponsors, Partners, and FOM. The estimates seemed generally plausible, maybe a little high but maybe I'm just naïve. Anyway basically in the ballpark.

The estimates included a staggering bit of information: All teams make a large loss. Here's another way of putting it: If the table in that article was created according to generally accepted accounting principles, then the column labeled "Partners" would instead be labeled "Loss".

Not rocket science. I work for a large company. This company has shareholders, a.k.a. "Partners". The purpose of my company is to give money to the shareholders on a regular basis. This is how companies are supposed to work. In the F1 paddock, people with money or control of other people's money (corporations), think it is reasonable to work in the other direction: The purpose of companies is to lose money every year and to therefore require money from "Partners" to the company. There is no indication of this money flow changing in the foreseeable future.

The world is not in a severe recession at the moment. High-end international motorsports have been stable and growing for quite some time. Formula 1 teams did not recently lose some gigantic lawsuit or something like that. And yet all of the teams, without exception, are losing money. This is a bizarrely quiet yet significant bit of information regarding the financial judgement of Formula 1 teams in general, and of companies that choose to invest in Formula 1.

Team Budget Estimation Reveals Income Spread
http://www.f1technical.net/news/20123
What's Renault's marketing budget and how does that compare to the additional 250(ish) million for running an F1 team?