2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Manoah2u
Manoah2u
416
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Image

Team: Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team
Base: Brackley, Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Team principal(s): Toto Wolff (Business Executive Director), Paddy Lowe (Technical Executive Director), Niki Lauda (Team Advisor)
Technical director(s): Geoff Willis, Aldo Costa
Website: http://www.mercedesamgf1.com

Race drivers: 44 Image Lewis Hamilton & 6 Image Nico Rosberg

Test drivers : TBA

Chassis: F1 W07 Hybrid
Engine: Mercedes V6 Turbo
2015 position: 1st (703 pts)

Image

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is to discuss the 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 TEAM
Discussion about the pre-launch 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 W07 Hybrid CAR: CLICK HERE
Last edited by Manoah2u on Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

A big thanks to manoah2u for arranging the team topics! A lot of effort went into it, so a big cheers to him!
#AeroFrodo

User avatar
Morteza
2279
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
bdr529
102
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

turbof1 wrote:A big thanks to manoah2u for arranging the team topics! A lot of effort went into it, so a big cheers to him!
Shouldn't we be giving the thumbs up vote to the person who did the work and not the guy who pointed it out :? :?
Manoah2u - 0 votes
turbof1 - 2 votes

User avatar
Shrieker
43
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:41 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Heh, I'm not surprised. Ferrari probably paid top dollar for that.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

User avatar
SiLo
92
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Didn't they get 703 points last year? It was 701 in 2014 I believe.

**MODS**

Delete this post after correction has been made please :)
Felipe Baby!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
639
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

There was a thread discussing it but it appears to have disappeared. Perhaps the mods are secret Ferrari fans... :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Nathanael F1
Nathanael F1
9
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
There was a thread discussing it but it appears to have disappeared. Perhaps the mods are secret Ferrari fans... :lol:
It's still here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=23722
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

lebesset
lebesset
27
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:00 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

isn't red cap still chairman ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

Skippon
Skippon
15
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: England

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Yes Lauda is chairman......... of Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains answers to Thomas Weber and Dr Z

User avatar
Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Now Merc is against the 2017 changes. That is nothing but "protecting their advantage ". Right now, more than anything else, f1 needs to be faster. Other series' are just too close on laptime.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122215
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

skoop
skoop
15
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:46 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Pierce89 wrote:Now Merc is against the 2017 changes. That is nothing but "protecting their advantage ". Right now, more than anything else, f1 needs to be faster. Other series' are just too close on laptime.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122215

they're not against Change, but against rules that make overtaking harder. there's a huge difference in that.
(source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122215)

edit: i just saw that you refer to the same article. i'm interpeting the things costa said different then you

dans79
dans79
249
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

skoop wrote: they're not against Change, but against rules that make overtaking harder. there's a huge difference in that.

edit: i just saw that you refer to the same article. i'm interpeting the things costa said different then you
And Costa knows what they are talking about! If they just heap a bunch of extra super sensitive down force onto the cars, they will go faster, but overtaking will drop to zero. They need to add mechanical grip, and they need to make the down down-force a lot less wake sensitive.
161 97 92 6

User avatar
FoxHound
218
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:50 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

dans79 wrote:
skoop wrote: they're not against Change, but against rules that make overtaking harder. there's a huge difference in that.

edit: i just saw that you refer to the same article. i'm interpeting the things costa said different then you
And Costa knows what they are talking about! If they just heap a bunch of extra super sensitive down force onto the cars, they will go faster, but overtaking will drop to zero. They need to add mechanical grip, and they need to make the down down-force a lot less wake sensitive.
I have my theories about this, and I don't want to keep harping on about Red Bull but there is some very clear evidence of why this is being done.

Mercedes dominated the sport for the last 2 years. Red Bull and Bernie would have you believe that this is down to the Merc PU106. And while I agree it does play a role here, it is not the silver arrow(excuse pun).
No other Mercedes powered team has won a race, Red Bull have in fact won more than any other Mercedes team since the Turbo's arrived.
We also see that Ferrari's V6 is now a near match for Mercedes.
Arrivabene wrote:“But looking at the data, we are there, because our engine department did a great job.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... s-in-2016/

Then we have Andy Cowell of Mercedes HPP stating that the current rules would mean most engine makers would be converging performance wise very soon. to the point that the engine would make less than 0.3 seconds difference.
Allied to that, costs would have come down dramatically(V8's cost twice as much in 2008 than they did in 2011 for example).

Through the various machinations of F1, there was a brief to increase the speed and sound of the cars utilising less of the engine and more of aero.
This is being done for the simple reason of putting less emphasis on engines and more on aerodynamics. And if we look at Mateschitz relationship with Ecclestone and Mosley, it was clear why aerodynamics was the main precursor than mechanical grip. Read the link for more on that.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/sh ... archionne/

There simply is no sense at all in making aerodynamics even more prevalent in relation to other aspects of the car.
It would be far cheaper and more effective to increase mechanical grip, through tyres and suspension/chassis rules than it would aerodynamics.
But the tyres would be the same for everyone and therefore Mateschitz team could not develop and extensive advantage from it.
Some may point to the Red Bull's superior use of Pirelli's from 2010-13 as something that dispels my assertions. However, those tyres were designed to fall apart when pushed over the limit. If you are going to have tyres that increase mechanical grip, thereby pushing the limit further, most teams would manage far better than the narrow working window of the 2010-13 Pirelli's.

Moving on though...Will Buxton and various others have their opinions on Red Bull's success, and it's their view that rules where changed at various stages that actually suited them. From frozen engines, to tyres, to aerodynamics.
Whilst I don't concur it was always one way traffic, they certainly do have a point.

Especially now we see aerodynamics being held as the magic bullet, not giving one flying jot as to what happens to the cars that follow...the cars that are racing.

Who will it best serve? And why? And what of the costs involved?
Engines are being vilified as the major cost demon....at around 20 million for a years supply. Yet looking at team budgets, this is dwarfed in relation to total team budgets.

1. Red Bull Racing (€266m + €35.7m + €167m) = €468.7m
2. Mercedes (€122m + €212.4m + €133m) = €467.4m
3. McLaren Honda (€144.5m + €216.5m + €104m) = €465m
4. Ferrari (€208.5m + €34.5m + €175m) = €418m
5. Williams (€52.5m + €22.9m + €111m) = €186.4m
6. Lotus (€69.5m + €13.6m + €56m) = €139.1m
7. Toro Rosso (€68m + €9.45m + €60m) = €137.45m
8. Force India (€49.5m + €12.2m + €68m) = €129.7m
9. Sauber (€44m + €9.25m + €50m) = €103.25m
10. Manor (€0.5m + €32.5m + €50m) = €83m


So if we take a midfield running team like Williams, paying 20 million for Mercedes PU's that still leaves over 160 million to spend on chassis and aerodynamics.
The chassis certainly won't take up much of the budget, given the stringent rules on shape, size, materials and a general convergence in suspension design(post frics).
Leaving a massive portion being spent on Aero. And this is going to increase given the amount of importance they are putting on it. Is this really what Ecclestone want's to do seen as though costs are the reason he wanted alternative engines in the first place?

It is my view that these rules are being brought in to not only favour a team, but to keep them in the sport.
It's not for cost reasoning, nor for competitive purposes.


I could be wrong, but given what I've read...it stinks.
JET set

User avatar
Pierce89
96
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

IMHO Mercedes is simply trying to protect their position.

Besides the DF improvement is mostly ground effect based, which according to some posters here, improves overtaking. (Reality is much less clear, on that subject).
Last edited by Steven on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Be nice
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher