2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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SR71
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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So Lewis quit after Spain?

Peter1919
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Gettingonabit wrote:What were the team doing by instructing Ham to drive differently in the last few laps, whatever the results they had both titles sewn up. Asking a driver to throw away any chance of the title, however slim, was puerile. Would the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Schumacher, Prost or Senna done any different to what Hamilton did - I think not.

All they have done is open themselves up to accusations of bias - silly thing to do. :(
I agree they should never have issued a team order than Hamilton was bound to ignore as they were effectively ordering him to give up on his last chance of wining the WDC which he was never going to be willing to do. All they have done is harmed their relationship with one of the top 3 or 4 drivers in the sport (quite possibly the best driver)

Gaz.
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Cold Fussion wrote:Because Mercedes want the best result possible which is a 1-2, and the only way could lose that result was by Hamilton doing exactly what he was trying to do. This problem was further exacerbated by their second driver needing to employ a risk averse strategy to on track battles with all drivers except his team mate. So in the eyes of Mercedes, all they are seeing is the possibility of Hamilton artificially creating a 4 way battle for the lead, forcing Rosberg to get aggressive with his team mate (let's not forget that it doesn't matter if some racing incident takes both Hamilton and Rosberg out from Rosbergs POV) and thus the distinct possibility than Mercedes could lose a secure 1-2, potentially a win and yet another on track disaster between their two drivers. They also appear to operate under the assumption that because it says in Hamilton's contract that he will follow team instructions that he'll do so when asked to, too bad for them they had no real leverage to do so in this instance.
Can you recall a previous occasion where a driver was requested to relinquish their title fight for the benefit of their team mate at a title deciding race? I genuinely can't but I've only been watching since the second half of the 1986 season. I'm only asking for the request to do so, not the agreement by the driver which I assume would be even harder to come by. I think it's such a rare occurrence that were I to google the answer I would start looking at the 1950 season and work forwards rather than 2015 and work backwards....
Forza Jules

bill shoe
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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I have no problem with how Ham and Ros handled the last race, but I'm amazed by Mercedes Team's weird non-action.

Everyone and their dog knew that the storyline of the race would be Hamilton backing up Rosberg. Christian Horner reminded Toto before the race just in case Toto forgot. And then Toto said the Mercedes F1 team had carefully considered all scenarios and would firmly police their internal driver etiquette just like any other race.

The race happens, and Hamilton (surprise !!!) backs Rosberg up. Then the following events occur --
  • 1. Mercedes issues increasingly stern warnings to Hamilton to speed up, culminating in the "the highest escalation we have" (Toto's description) which was the warning from Paddy Lowe.
    2. Hamilton does not change.
    3. Mercedes takes no further action.
    4. After the race, Toto decides Hamilton's actions "set a precedent" which would require further pondering to determine if those actions are OK. Despite everyone knowing in advance those actions would happen. Got it?
My first thought is that Merc decided to simply let the drivers race. But if the team manager publically tells a driver to do something, it's not done, and then the team does nothing about it then you've severely undermined the credibility of the team manager.

The only scenario that explains this very public bark-without-bite is a disagreement among upper team leadership about how to handle the obvious situation, and therefore Toto went through the required motions but did not actually take any action. So really Hamilton and Rosberg were OK on track, but there was an interesting lack of agreement among the team's top-heavy leadership, and an even more interesting lack of clarity about how that leadership is supposed to resolve those differences.

Cold Fussion
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Gaz. wrote:
Cold Fussion wrote:Because Mercedes want the best result possible which is a 1-2, and the only way could lose that result was by Hamilton doing exactly what he was trying to do. This problem was further exacerbated by their second driver needing to employ a risk averse strategy to on track battles with all drivers except his team mate. So in the eyes of Mercedes, all they are seeing is the possibility of Hamilton artificially creating a 4 way battle for the lead, forcing Rosberg to get aggressive with his team mate (let's not forget that it doesn't matter if some racing incident takes both Hamilton and Rosberg out from Rosbergs POV) and thus the distinct possibility than Mercedes could lose a secure 1-2, potentially a win and yet another on track disaster between their two drivers. They also appear to operate under the assumption that because it says in Hamilton's contract that he will follow team instructions that he'll do so when asked to, too bad for them they had no real leverage to do so in this instance.
Can you recall a previous occasion where a driver was requested to relinquish their title fight for the benefit of their team mate at a title deciding race? I genuinely can't but I've only been watching since the second half of the 1986 season. I'm only asking for the request to do so, not the agreement by the driver which I assume would be even harder to come by. I think it's such a rare occurrence that were I to google the answer I would start looking at the 1950 season and work forwards rather than 2015 and work backwards....
It's such rare thing to see two team mates battling for the title at the last race. Don't forget the radio traffic has only been openly broadcasted for 10-15 years? I'm sure the Mclaren radio waves were pretty busy after turn 4 in Brazil 2007.

Shakeman
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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I think in a couple of years time we'll look back at this grand prix and see the moment where the HAM/Merc relationship began to break down.

Toto might rue suggesting Hamilton drives for Christian Horner in the future, it would be hugely ironic if the stars aligned and Lewis ended up in an RB and leads ROS a merry dance.

I could certainly see the marketing potential for RB having a proven multi WDC and the boy wonder in the team with a competitive car in 2019. Lewis won't be short of offers at the end of his Merc tenure as one would expect the other engine manufacturers to have caught up then it would be a straight fight with the chassis and who would discount RB in those circumstances?

alexx_88
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Horner is a smart and very political TP. He knew exactly how to stir the trouble at Mercedes before the race and then he has gone and put more fuel on the fire by criticizing the team's actions and essentially dividing them up even further. Very smart. It has nothing to do with RB employing Hamilton in the future and everything to do with weakening Mercedes for 2017. Saying that, I think Horner is smarter than pairing up two hot-headed drivers like VES and HAM. Even the RIC-VES pairing is dangerous if both get into a championship-winning position.

LookBackTime
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Mercedes driver Lewis Hamilton pulled out of the Pirelli F1 test in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday after feeling unwell.

The Briton, who won the Yas Marina race on Sunday but lost the championship to teammate Nico Rosberg, had joined the test to work on Pirelli's 2017 Formula 1 tyres.

Hamilton was not scheduled to drive today, with Pascal Wehrlein expected to be in the Mercedes cockpit, but Pirelli announced a change of plans this morning.

The German was scheduled to take over from Hamilton in the afternoon.

However, Hamilton was replaced by Wehrlein early as he was not feeling well after a few runs.

The test is the final one Pirelli is carrying out to evaluate next year's wider tyres.

Also on track are Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen and Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/unwel ... st-855220/

Lewis did installation lap and two short runs this morning. In total: 5 laps.

Guns are one the table!! Who will shot first?

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Given he actually did some laps, it might not be naive to think he is actually unwell.
#AeroFrodo

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A-Bap
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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turbof1 wrote:Given he actually did some laps, it might not be naive to think he is actually unwell.
I read someplace, or perhaps heard it on Ted's Notebook--whatever. What I understand is that the new tires and higher downforce levels are proving to be very hard on the drivers--they're having trouble. A hangover plus the increased lateral G's could have done him in. Just putting it out there...

Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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A-Bap wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Given he actually did some laps, it might not be naive to think he is actually unwell.
I read someplace, or perhaps heard it on Ted's Notebook--whatever. What I understand is that the new tires and higher downforce levels are proving to be very hard on the drivers--they're having trouble. A hangover plus the increased lateral G's could have done him in. Just putting it out there...
yeah right, an entire race with G-forces, pressure, stress, and no batting an eye,
but a simple tire test will fatigue the driver? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

better put it back where it came from......
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:
A-Bap wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Given he actually did some laps, it might not be naive to think he is actually unwell.
I read someplace, or perhaps heard it on Ted's Notebook--whatever. What I understand is that the new tires and higher downforce levels are proving to be very hard on the drivers--they're having trouble. A hangover plus the increased lateral G's could have done him in. Just putting it out there...
yeah right, an entire race with G-forces, pressure, stress, and no batting an eye,
but a simple tire test will fatigue the driver? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>

better put it back where it came from......
How this reminds me of Webber puking in his own helmet:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/mark- ... ce/998672/
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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LOL i forgot about that one, hilarious
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

zac510
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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They'll get over it. Alonso, Vettel, also did very disruptive (to the team) things in the past and they're still trusted drivers. IMO Mercedes just need to forget what Lewis did and get on with 2017. Every time they bring it up in a team discussion it will bring back to Rosberg's conscience.

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

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Manoah2u wrote:yeah right, an entire race with G-forces, pressure, stress, and no batting an eye,
but a simple tire test will fatigue the driver? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D>
...I don't think these things can be looked at linearly.

E.g.: 300km of being subjected to x amount of force is not comparable to double the amount of force at half the distance. And it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that a hangover might have caused this.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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