2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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alexx_88 wrote:Hindsight is a beautiful thing. What if they would've called Kimi in and Hamilton would've stayed out? What were Kimi's chances to overtake on a track where Hamilton is a beast and would've had clean air in front?

It's only so much you can do with a slower car...
It's not a hindsight. We all knew what Mercedes is doing.
Ferrari should have told kimi to push to keep the gap to Hamilton.
Or tell him nothing, and go to the end on softs. if anyone could do it, it's kimi.
They also should have stretched Vettels middle stint so when hamilton pits, he losses couple of seconds behind him(I think he was close enough).

Also they pitted kimi for softs to early.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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alexx_88 wrote:Hindsight is a beautiful thing. What if they would've called Kimi in and Hamilton would've stayed out? What were Kimi's chances to overtake on a track where Hamilton is a beast and would've had clean air in front?

It's only so much you can do with a slower car...
He could try to keep his tyres alive until the end of the race. It was the only chance of achieving a podium. Not an easy task but it was better than just pitting laster and watch how Lewis was ahead.

Vettelswonmeover
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Ferrari bottled it AGAIN with Kimi. I know its not as straightforward as it it seems but still, Singapore being a street circuit with limited overtaking opportunities and keeping the Ultrasofts fresh enough to pass after 16-17 laps were 2 big factors which would have probably helped Kimi retain third (keeping the Speed Diff. between Merc & Ferrari in mind).
Ferrari should have remembered last year’s Canadian GP while pitting Kimi again. Kimi in a faster car pitted to put on fresher tyres but could not pass Bottas for 3rd.

This is probably Ferrari’s 3rd critical strategy mistake of the year. (Could have been 4 had Vettel not overridden the team’s decision in Baku)
I may be wrong (& probably am) but all I seem to remember about Ferrari’s pit/car/aero strategy are mistakes. Glaring ones. Right from costing Fernando the title at Abu Dhabi 2010 to Vettel’s spectacular tyre burst at Spa last year to costing themselves 2 victories this year. From firing Aldo Costa to focussing on aero rather than engine power at the start of the hybrid era to sacking James Allison, mistakes, mistakes and just mistakes. Wonder when they will learn!

sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Vettelswonmeover wrote:Ferrari bottled it AGAIN with Kimi. I know its not as straightforward as it it seems but still, Singapore being a street circuit with limited overtaking opportunities and keeping the Ultrasofts fresh enough to pass after 16-17 laps were 2 big factors which would have probably helped Kimi retain third (keeping the Speed Diff. between Merc & Ferrari in mind).
Ferrari should have remembered last year’s Canadian GP while pitting Kimi again. Kimi in a faster car pitted to put on fresher tyres but could not pass Bottas for 3rd.

This is probably Ferrari’s 3rd critical strategy mistake of the year. (Could have been 4 had Vettel not overridden the team’s decision in Baku)
I may be wrong (& probably am) but all I seem to remember about Ferrari’s pit/car/aero strategy are mistakes. Glaring ones. Right from costing Fernando the title at Abu Dhabi 2010 to Vettel’s spectacular tyre burst at Spa last year to costing themselves 2 victories this year. From firing Aldo Costa to focussing on aero rather than engine power at the start of the hybrid era to sacking James Allison, mistakes, mistakes and just mistakes. Wonder when they will learn!
I agree with everything you said except with 2015 Spa. (IMO Ferrari and Vettel did great, but Pirelli is crap)

Ferrari made at least 4 obvious errors this year. Any time they're in front, they find some way to give up track position.
Like in Canada, or in Australia. They did nicely in Spain and Monaco.

I can only imagine RB and Mercedes strategists laughing.
The best/worst part of this Singapore blunder was that everyone knew Hamilton started pushing at lap 38 and if he doesn't pits, he would had hard time getting till the end. He would get there, but wouldn't be fast, so why haven't they told Kimi to push to keep the gap, so they are safe from undercat.
When they failed to do that, they committed to stay on softs till the end.

Ferrari knew that 1 lap undercut is worth at least 3 seconds(Vettel undercut Perez), and Kimi had only 2.5s advantage! WTF!

giantfan10
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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sosic2121 wrote:
Fulcrum wrote:I've spoken enough about this incident in the race thread, but the primary issue I've tried to highlight was Ferrari's reactive strategy throughout the race. They had scope to literally do anything, more so even than Hamilton, and they ended up doing exactly what Mercedes hoped they would.

Moreover, the data as fed to the live audience was more than enough to discern what Mercedes were doing. A sudden change in lap time during the 3rd stint; rapid narrowing of a gap that was previously stable; allowing this to continue to the point where an undercut was possible; allowing Mercedes to pit first, only to follow the lap after, solidifying the strategic blunder; and doing so in a manner so obvious as to be questioned by the driver.
IMO you are 100% right!
Ferrari failed miserably. AGAIN! It's time someone gets fired.
All started in Melbourne when they haven't put mediums on Vettel's car, despite they knew Mercedes did!

Ferrari, especially Raikkonen's Ferrari has one advantage over competition, tires degradation, but we yet to see strategy that plays this strength.

In the end, they compromised kimi strategy so much, that Vettel finished only 17s behind!
Teams have NO IDEA what tires another team fits to their car during a red flag situation untill the cars are seconds away from rolling off.... just thought you should know

aral
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Calm down everyone! Ferrari have far more data available to them than anyone of the expert pundits on this thread. It was always a question of how many stops as various strategies were found to provide almost identical results. Kimi ONLY got past Hamilton due to Lewis making an error on his spent tyres. Otherwise, there was very little realistic chance of him getting past him anyway before the end.
Ferrari made their decision and nobody knows if it could have panned out differently .

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ME4ME
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Ferrari isn't giving up on 2016 ...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ce-828694/
"We have six races now to go and if we want to be second in constructors' [championship] of course we need to improve, that is normal," he said. "This is what we are going to do.
Meanwhile RB already fully switched resources to the 2017 car. Way to go Ferrari, invest for the future #-o

sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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giantfan10 wrote:Teams have NO IDEA what tires another team fits to their car during a red flag situation untill the cars are seconds away from rolling off.... just thought you should know
Sorry, I thought they knew that.
But I'm pretty sure Ferrari knew Mercedes left meds on Lewis's car, and he beat Vettel in the end.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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ME4ME wrote:Ferrari isn't giving up on 2016 ...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ce-828694/
"We have six races now to go and if we want to be second in constructors' [championship] of course we need to improve, that is normal," he said. "This is what we are going to do.
Meanwhile RB already fully switched resources to the 2017 car. Way to go Ferrari, invest for the future #-o
With the current car, they only need to use the tyres better(on qualy) to secure second position against Red Bull. They can do it, but they cant spend resources and time in this car when 2017 is se near. It would be stupid.

Malaysia: I expect Ferrari to beat RB.

Japan: it should suit RB.

EEUU: I expect a close battle with RB

Mexico: Ferrari.

Brazil: Ferrari.

Abu Dabi: RB

They can do it but the box needs to do its job properly.

Gothrek
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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ME4ME wrote:Ferrari isn't giving up on 2016 ...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ce-828694/
"We have six races now to go and if we want to be second in constructors' [championship] of course we need to improve, that is normal," he said. "This is what we are going to do.
Meanwhile RB already fully switched resources to the 2017 car. Way to go Ferrari, invest for the future #-o
I don't think Vettel speaks resources wise. As it has been confirmed by Ferrari that they are fully focussing on 2017.
From my point of view, he wants the team to stay hungry, he wants to motivate them and not give up.

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F1NAC
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Probably he refers to parts that are already planned waaay before.

GoranF1
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Vasconia wrote:
ME4ME wrote:Ferrari isn't giving up on 2016 ...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ce-828694/
"We have six races now to go and if we want to be second in constructors' [championship] of course we need to improve, that is normal," he said. "This is what we are going to do.
Meanwhile RB already fully switched resources to the 2017 car. Way to go Ferrari, invest for the future #-o
With the current car, they only need to use the tyres better(on qualy) to secure second position against Red Bull. They can do it, but they cant spend resources and time in this car when 2017 is se near. It would be stupid.

Malaysia: I expect Ferrari to beat RB.

Japan: it should suit RB.

EEUU: I expect a close battle with RB

Mexico: Ferrari.

Brazil: Ferrari.

Abu Dabi: RB

They can do it but the box needs to do its job properly.
Only in Mexico will Ferrari beat RB....maybe.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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GoranF1 wrote:
Vasconia wrote:
ME4ME wrote:Ferrari isn't giving up on 2016 ...

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ce-828694/



Meanwhile RB already fully switched resources to the 2017 car. Way to go Ferrari, invest for the future #-o
With the current car, they only need to use the tyres better(on qualy) to secure second position against Red Bull. They can do it, but they cant spend resources and time in this car when 2017 is se near. It would be stupid.

Malaysia: I expect Ferrari to beat RB.

Japan: it should suit RB.

EEUU: I expect a close battle with RB

Mexico: Ferrari.

Brazil: Ferrari.

Abu Dabi: RB

They can do it but the box needs to do its job properly.
Only in Mexico will Ferrari beat RB....maybe.
Not even in Brazil? it has been traditionally a good track for Ferrari.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Arrivabene: Vettel must earn Ferrari future

Oh well, what have we come to !!! I wouldn't want to really read it the way it was put in heading, but scrolling through the article, the message is clear, where Arrivabene has said it that way, without really sounding it that way. Vettel is one asset that they shouldn't be ruffling the feathers of. Totally un-necessary statements there Mr. Arrivabene.

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F1NAC
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Re: 2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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sadly I need to agree with you. They just want to dismantle everything :D