2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Lol, never gonna happen. Ron isn't coming back to F1 period. he has given himself other jobs to work with now, and he's waved F1 goodbye.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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There's been a lot of talk of free engines and/or funding from Honda being the sticking points; I wonder if also Honda was looking for somewhere to put Matsushita (I'm sure that would have been the plan at Sauber).

Toro Rosso basically exists to provide a place for RB young drivers, so also imagine that would have been a deal breaker if Honda was insistent.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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If honda end up with Toro Rosso, it would be great if Toro Rosso could seperate themselves from Red Bull and be fully independent. Then actually help develop the Honda engine and be a force on their own.

2 years time Toro Rosso sign Max and Riccy haha
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Squid
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sain ... da-951146/

Sainz to Renault, Gasly and Honda to Toro Rosso, Kvyat somehow scores another year? Looks like it.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Nice work for Renault. Especially if they get Sainz as early as mentioned.
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OneAlex
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Renault get Sainz and McLaren instead of TR, which seems great, but if they lose Red Bull (on top of TR) to Honda in 2019 who then both start beating them...

Honestly it feels like RB may be the ONLY winners from this. If Honda really has upped their game and started to overtake Renault as many on here state then McLaren, Sainz and Renault will all lose out. And if Honda has a wobbly 2018 TR loses out too.

Still, we'll probably know the answer to that before the season has even ended. Imagine the media attention on McLaren in Abu Dhabi if they're fast...

Meanwhile the question is, if Matsushita manages to get enough superlicence points, will he replace Kvyat or nab Gasly's spot.

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iotar__
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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OneAlex wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:39 pm
Renault get Sainz and McLaren instead of TR, which seems great, but if they lose Red Bull (on top of TR) to Honda in 2019 who then both start beating them...

Honestly it feels like RB may be the ONLY winners from this. If Honda really has upped their game and started to overtake Renault as many on here state then McLaren, Sainz and Renault will all lose out. And if Honda has a wobbly 2018 TR loses out too.

Still, we'll probably know the answer to that before the season has even ended. Imagine the media attention on McLaren in Abu Dhabi if they're fast...

Meanwhile the question is, if Matsushita manages to get enough superlicence points, will he replace Kvyat or nab Gasly's spot.
None of these point makes any sense to me:
1. Leaving Sainz's lack of track achievements aside, how is "getting" McLaren great for Renault assuming they're getting better engine? It's making their closest competitor better.

2. How is Rb a winner if they're not involved and it's based on not existent '19 season where TR and RB (with the Honda engine?) are beating Renault? RB and TR are already beating Renault, no need to wait for '19 :wink:

3. Honda upping their game is just a possibility but smaller team/new chassis and change itself is not helping them at all. "Many people here" that are mostly wrong about everything and are giving each other points should know that. :wink:

4. Starting point is McLaren and Sauber refusing Honda deal, the latter using gearbox excuse. Toro Rosso will have to build their own I guess (?) which is a performance/resources cost on top of another engine related redesign, third in four years. Considering McL's integration problems much smaller organization as TR will get set of problems with that.

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OneAlex
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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iotar__ wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:09 am
1. Leaving Sainz's lack of track achievements aside, how is "getting" McLaren great for Renault assuming they're getting better engine? It's making their closest competitor better.

It's a prestige thing. As much as I like TR they're still a junior player. If you were Renault who would you want showcasing your engine, a B-Team, or one of the sports biggest teams. Yes at some point it's more competition for the Renault works team but for now they seem open about the fact they can't challenge for a few years anyway.
iotar__ wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:09 am
2. How is Rb a winner if they're not involved and it's based on not existent '19 season where TR and RB (with the Honda engine?) are beating Renault? RB and TR are already beating Renault, no need to wait for '19 :wink:

RB is winner because it gives them options in the future. TR is their test bed team, and if Honda stays crap okay TR will suffer next year but RB won't be affected, but they've wanted to ditch Renault for a while and if the Honda engine comes good as RB is betting it will then they won't allow TR to keep an exclusive Honda engine, they'll strap it to their car too.
iotar__ wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:09 am
3. Honda upping their game is just a possibility but smaller team/new chassis and change itself is not helping them at all. "Many people here" that are mostly wrong about everything and are giving each other points should know that. :wink:

4. Starting point is McLaren and Sauber refusing Honda deal, the latter using gearbox excuse. Toro Rosso will have to build their own I guess (?) which is a performance/resources cost on top of another engine related redesign, third in four years. Considering McL's integration problems much smaller organization as TR will get set of problems with that.
I know most people are just being hopeful and telling themselves Honda are improving :D but I think recently there is hope. TR being a smaller outfit may hurt with integration, but as Honda don't involve McLaren with actual engine building it shouldn't harm engine progress.

Plus we don't know how much money Honda will have agreed to provide TR. It could help to up their game even with the late redesign needed. And with McLaren pushing Honda out if TR willingly embrace the manufacturer it may win them some loyalty points from the Japanese.

It's a gamble, but if the Honda engine comes good, and they bring more cash to TR who we know can build a good car sometimes... It could be an exciting development year next year... If they have the right drivers.

But if it is a good year, definitely expect RB to switch to Honda and take the extra money and "favoured team" status away from TR and give it to themselves in 2019.

erlik
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Italian based team with Japanese built engines maintained in England ... somehow it looks messy

this is my signature


n_anirudh
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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erlik wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:29 pm
Italian based team with Japanese built engines maintained in England ... somehow it looks messy

this is my signature
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12631 ... am-in-mind

I guess Horner n co. may have already taken a walk down to inspect the facilities just in case STR needed to switch engines.
Also, I dont see why Didi would be willing to give up Renault engines on STR (aiding Mclaren to take points of RBR) and giving up Sainz on top of that....unless Renault is giving lots discount on TAG-Heuer engines..

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loner
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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n_anirudh wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:09 pm
erlik wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:29 pm
Italian based team with Japanese built engines maintained in England ... somehow it looks messy

this is my signature
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12631 ... am-in-mind

I guess Horner n co. may have already taken a walk down to inspect the facilities just in case STR needed to switch engines.
Also, I dont see why Didi would be willing to give up Renault engines on STR (aiding Mclaren to take points of RBR) and giving up Sainz on top of that....unless Renault is giving lots discount on TAG-Heuer engines..
if it happens it mean one thing , Mario gave the OK to Redbull.
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The new "Spec 4" in the pipeline is NOT an Illien designed PU. He had nothing to do with the upcoming PU. This is a "team wazari" designed ICE, PU. 8) Rumor has it that Illien has seen and blessed this configuration PU but I would be quite surprised if this is true. Sometimes I just want to wrangle these journalist's necks.
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sasa.nikolic
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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https://www.pitpass.com/60072/Toro-Ross ... make-sense

If TR/RBR gave up Sainz as sweetener, it seems that they are more desperate to get Honda then McL to get rid of it. Until few days ago only talk was about McL wanting dvorce from Honda. Makes you wonder.
It seems Mario Ilien is talking different things to McL and TR/RBR :-)

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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That article is so biased I don´t know where to start...

First, Sainz has never been frustrated about STR, he was planning his future as NO STR DRIVER HAS EVER DONE A FOURTH SEASON WITH STR, and 2018 will be the fourth for Carlos, so he has something to worry about. Also, STR has never been open about their decisions until last moment, when their discarded drivers has no option to look for another seat.

About his move, it´s not RBR or McLaren requirement, it is Renault requirement. They want him as a compensation for that team switch they don´t need to do.

Finally, RBR is not renouncing to Sainz, I´m not sure what´s the term in english but the plan is to let Sainz race for Renault one or two seasons, and then give him a RBR seat if possible. It´s just a temporary transfer

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

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Sainz will go and not want a red bull seat in 2 years as Renault will be ahead of Red Bull by 2020
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