2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
WaikeCU
71
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 pm
Santozini wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:53 pm
Singabule wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 pm
Yes, hope for fully fledged honda works!
That would be interesting!
Well, I recon they still have all the (BMW) works team infrastructure, especially combined with R&D from Honda itself.

If so, it would heighten the crisis at McLaren, loosing their works status once more, their future will become midfield, battling with Williams, STR and Haas.
I doubt it. The level the work done at Mclaren is still very high. If losing works status will lead to a midfield battle, then what is Red Bull? To me Renault have a works team in Renault F1 team, but Red Bull is still the better team with their rebadged Renault engine. Put a Merc engine in that Mclaren and I'm surely they'll battle with Red Bull for 3rd best team.

User avatar
etusch
144
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

WaikeCU wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 pm
Santozini wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:53 pm


That would be interesting!
Well, I recon they still have all the (BMW) works team infrastructure, especially combined with R&D from Honda itself.

If so, it would heighten the crisis at McLaren, loosing their works status once more, their future will become midfield, battling with Williams, STR and Haas.
I doubt it. The level the work done at Mclaren is still very high. If losing works status will lead to a midfield battle, then what is Red Bull? To me Renault have a works team in Renault F1 team, but Red Bull is still the better team with their rebadged Renault engine. Put a Merc engine in that Mclaren and I'm surely they'll battle with Red Bull for 3rd best team.
You must read Renault's we can give PU to 4 team news. There is some important sentence there

Facts Only
Facts Only
270
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

Santozini wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:53 pm
Singabule wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 pm
Yes, hope for fully fledged honda works!
That would be interesting!
It would be interesting in the same way that its interesting to watch a slow motion video of a car crash, seeing all the parts break, colapse, crumple and fall apart until it eventually grinds to a halt and is sent to scrap.

It wont happen anyway, Kaltenbourne has been got rid of as she has prsided over a catastrophic fall in performance and operational ability
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

cplchanb
cplchanb
6
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:13 pm

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

I wouldn't be too excited for a Honda works team. As an engine, they were successful in the 80s but as their own team things have been quite patchy. Remember their wonderful cars in 2007/8? Their only success was in 2006 when button scored a lucky victory in Hungary.
Still a 4th works team would indeed be welcome news

Jolle
Jolle
197
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

WaikeCU wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 pm
Santozini wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:53 pm


That would be interesting!
Well, I recon they still have all the (BMW) works team infrastructure, especially combined with R&D from Honda itself.

If so, it would heighten the crisis at McLaren, loosing their works status once more, their future will become midfield, battling with Williams, STR and Haas.
I doubt it. The level the work done at Mclaren is still very high. If losing works status will lead to a midfield battle, then what is Red Bull? To me Renault have a works team in Renault F1 team, but Red Bull is still the better team with their rebadged Renault engine. Put a Merc engine in that Mclaren and I'm surely they'll battle with Red Bull for 3rd best team.
RedBull (still) trumps Renault itself because of RedBulls massive budget, people and experience for the past few years. With the right investments Renault should surpass Redbull the coming years because they changed their internal processes more like Mercedes. In the past they saw their works team as just another customer from an engine standpoint. The two departments weren't integrated.

But yeah, RedBull is the odd one out, as a customer team but with a 400+mln budget. If McLaren should loose their Honda money, they also drop into the 150-200mln budget range and Sauber could grow again to a 300+mln budget team.

And in F1: money+clever engineering = succes

User avatar
ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

Goodbye and good riddance Kaltenborn.

User avatar
adrianjordan
67
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:31 pm
WaikeCU wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 pm


Well, I recon they still have all the (BMW) works team infrastructure, especially combined with R&D from Honda itself.

If so, it would heighten the crisis at McLaren, loosing their works status once more, their future will become midfield, battling with Williams, STR and Haas.
I doubt it. The level the work done at Mclaren is still very high. If losing works status will lead to a midfield battle, then what is Red Bull? To me Renault have a works team in Renault F1 team, but Red Bull is still the better team with their rebadged Renault engine. Put a Merc engine in that Mclaren and I'm surely they'll battle with Red Bull for 3rd best team.
RedBull (still) trumps Renault itself because of RedBulls massive budget, people and experience for the past few years. With the right investments Renault should surpass Redbull the coming years because they changed their internal processes more like Mercedes. In the past they saw their works team as just another customer from an engine standpoint. The two departments weren't integrated.

But yeah, RedBull is the odd one out, as a customer team but with a 400+mln budget. If McLaren should loose their Honda money, they also drop into the 150-200mln budget range and Sauber could grow again to a 300+mln budget team.

And in F1: money+clever engineering = succes
If only McLaren had multi-billionnaire owners....
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

cramr
cramr
8
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:51 am

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:29 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:31 pm
WaikeCU wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:32 pm


I doubt it. The level the work done at Mclaren is still very high. If losing works status will lead to a midfield battle, then what is Red Bull? To me Renault have a works team in Renault F1 team, but Red Bull is still the better team with their rebadged Renault engine. Put a Merc engine in that Mclaren and I'm surely they'll battle with Red Bull for 3rd best team.
RedBull (still) trumps Renault itself because of RedBulls massive budget, people and experience for the past few years. With the right investments Renault should surpass Redbull the coming years because they changed their internal processes more like Mercedes. In the past they saw their works team as just another customer from an engine standpoint. The two departments weren't integrated.

But yeah, RedBull is the odd one out, as a customer team but with a 400+mln budget. If McLaren should loose their Honda money, they also drop into the 150-200mln budget range and Sauber could grow again to a 300+mln budget team.

And in F1: money+clever engineering = succes
If only McLaren had multi-billionnaire owners....
All teams are behind multi-billionaire owners or companies which does not mean that they spent all the money they have on it

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
417
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

KALTENBORN IS GONE

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
ImageImage
Image
Image
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
121
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

It looks like to me that Sauber may be getting bought over by Honda long term. Longbow may have just scored a massive profit for a sell to Honda.

However, if Honda were to take over this entry, id bloody move it away from Hinwi as staffing there is taken up by a massive premium to attract the best staff to there, the only real alternative in that area of the world is Rebellion Racing, and they are a lean and mean team with only staffed with around 50 staff maximum. Sauber have almost 350 staff.

If i was Honda and i was to take over the Sauber entry, id bring in the dentist, Mr Kolles to run the team for the next two to three years at Hinwi, in that time id buy enough land, and build a big enough factory in the Cologne area or in the UK Motorsport Valley (Don't go to Caterham/Super Aguris old place, its been trashed and is cursed) so to get access to the German or UK knowledge base and get the team the access to the best staff.

Then for around 2019/2020 season, move the whole shooting match in to the new facility, Renault are now in the process of spending €220m in the factory and its facilities and infrastructure over 3 years in order to bring its chassis side up to par with Mercedes/Red Bull/Ferrari and other well funded teams. Honda would need to spend around €400m for a new factory and all its gibbons for the chassis side. In that time, if it was going to spend that dough, it would be able to bring its engine side up to par.

Too bloody many ifs and buts, but i could see it happening. As well as a 11th team for the 2018 season with cheap as Honda power.

User avatar
etusch
144
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

I wish Honda buy Sauber. They have very good wind tunnel but I dont know other parts. İt was bmw sauber earlier. Didn't bmw do development sauber facilities?

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
121
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

They have a good tunnel, but thats all. Also they have had 40% of their tunnel revenue outside F1 dry up as Audi left LMP1.

Talking Audi, could it be???

Or have i been slipped something in my water???

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
417
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

No, can't be Audi as Honda will supply Sauber next year.

Well, that, or Audi/Porsche is going there and Honda will be left out in the cold.
After all, Monisha is famous for contracting more drivers than seats, so why not contract engines for cars?

either way, dont'care.
good riddance. you will not be missed in any way at all.

Finally light at the end of a dark, dark tunnel for Sauber now. Let's get that team back to what it once was. Well, Honda Sauber F1 Team would be interesting though.

Then, will it actually stay Sauber?

Could we be looking at a potential "Honda Longbow F1 Racing Team" ?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

bill shoe
bill shoe
253
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:18 am
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

Kaltenborn would have only failed if she was not tough enough. But she was precisely tough. The nasty 3-drivers fiasco and all the putting up with no updates, older engines, lousy performance, etc. was her getting the job done when other teams (Caterham, Manor) had to close. Then she successfully did the deal to sell out to Longbow while avoiding drawn-out bleeding and melodrama like the GENII/Lotus-to-Renault deal.

Don't like her as an F1 personality, but she did not let her team down. If she had been anything other than tough-as-nails then everyone would say a woman can't cut it in the paddock...

User avatar
ringo
232
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

Post

She did a good job. I don't have any issue with her at all. She ketp what would have been a dead team alive for quite a few years. The team wasn't in good shape at all before. I hope the sentiments towards here aren't motivated by sexism or any other isms, but i can't see where she was a worse team principal than any other in a struggling team.
For Sure!!