2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Sniffit
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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To be fair though, Nasr bitched and moaned about his chassis all year, the team gave it to Ericsson after his shunt and could find nothing wrong with it.
And yes, while Nasr scored Saubers only points he was surely beaten by Ericsson over the course of the season.
Truth is both were there because they were paying for it, Ericsson out qualified and out raced Nasr while Nasr managed to score the only points.
Who's the better driver? I think it's a toss up, but to say that Nasr was more deserving to stay then Ericsson is a bit unfair.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Isn't a better point that Wherlein is a Mercedes protégé, I would think that puts him at risk IF Honda makes Sauber their works outfit.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

marmer
marmer
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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adrianjordan wrote:Isn't a better point that Wherlein is a Mercedes protégé, I would think that puts him at risk IF Honda makes Sauber their works outfit.
It could do but wherlein would do well to get near a Mercedes drive. Ocon looks better and Hamilton and bottas could have years left. I think being part of Mercedes is overplayed anyway they don't have issue with him there using Ferrari power

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Sniffit wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:32 pm
To be fair though, Nasr bitched and moaned about his chassis all year, the team gave it to Ericsson after his shunt and could find nothing wrong with it.
And yes, while Nasr scored Saubers only points he was surely beaten by Ericsson over the course of the season.
Truth is both were there because they were paying for it, Ericsson out qualified and out raced Nasr while Nasr managed to score the only points.
Who's the better driver? I think it's a toss up, but to say that Nasr was more deserving to stay then Ericsson is a bit unfair.
After the hole season I can say that Ericsson did a better job though Nars scored the only points. Not a fan of him but at least he improved clearly from his first season.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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marmer wrote:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:09 am
adrianjordan wrote:Isn't a better point that Wherlein is a Mercedes protégé, I would think that puts him at risk IF Honda makes Sauber their works outfit.
It could do but wherlein would do well to get near a Mercedes drive. Ocon looks better and Hamilton and bottas could have years left. I think being part of Mercedes is overplayed anyway they don't have issue with him there using Ferrari power

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I agree, but I was thinking more along the lines of Honda not wanting a rival's driver in their works team.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

sauberfan
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Swiss newspaper blick reports that Picci (owner of Sauber) has confirmed that Vasseur is the new team principal.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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To put Saubers struggles of the past few years into context, perhaps this helps:

TP: Peter Sauber
1993 (WCC: 7th) 12pts
1994 (WCC: 8th) 12pts
1995 (WCC: 7th) 18pts
1996 (WCC: 7th) 11pts
1997 (WCC: 7th) 16pts
1998 (WCC: 6th) 10pts
1999 (WCC: 8th) 5pts
2000 (WCC: 8th) 6pts
2001 (WCC: 4th) 21pts
2002 (WCC: 5th) 11pts
2003 (WCC: 6th) 19pts
2004 (WCC: 6th) 34pts
2005 (WCC: 8th) 20pts

TP: Mario Theissen (BMW)
2006 (WCC: 5th) 36pts
2007 (WCC: 2nd) 101pts
2008 (WCC: 3rd) 135pts
2009 (WCC: 6th) 36pts

TP: Peter Sauber
2010 (WCC: 8th) 44pts
2011 (WCC: 7th) 44pts
2012 (WCC: 6th) 126pts

TP: Monisha Kaltenborn
2013 (WCC: 7th) 57pts
2014 (WCC: 10th) 0pts
2015 (WCC: 8th) 36pts
2016 (WCC: 10) 2pts
2017 (WCC: currently 9th) 4pts

One needs to realize that when BMW decided to depart from F1, they left the Sauber team in a bit of a problematic situation. Peter Sauber's aim was always to secure the future of his team (under his name Sauber) and the staff of ~350 in Hinwil/Switzerland. When BMW departed, it forced Peter Sauber out of retirement and to buy back his team. Despite this, the team were steady performers from 2010 on, with slow and gradual improvement in the WCC, despite the loss of major sponsor Petronas (moved to Mercedes) and continued troubles of finding sponsors.

One of the biggest struggles the team faced was in 2014 when they ended up with a severely handicapped engine in an era dominated by the performance of the PU. As a result of these struggles it made finding money backers and sponsors even more troublesome while also losing high quality staff and engineers.

To put some of that in context, in 2013, Sauber was ahead of Torro-Rosso (8th) and Williams (9th). In 2014, they ended the season in 10th without a single point and past by Williams who with Mercedes powered engines was propelled to 3rd in the WCC (coming from 9th the year before). 2014 also marked the year where Sauber had a total of 13 retirements (DNFs).

To make matters worse, the financial troubles of both Marussia and Caterham meant that many suppliers started requiring upfront payment. This created a big problem for Sauber who needed to pay upfront to even make the grid on various instances. As a result, the team found itself behind payment of various drivers and staff. This also later led to the necessity of having to sign both Ericsson and Nasr (both with major money backing) over driver Giedo van der Garde for the 2015 season.

Not making any excuses here; it is what it is. In Switzerland and according to local newspapers, many regard Monisha Kaltenborn as one of the reasons that the team is still in F1 and has survived so far. The sale to Longbow Finances S.A. in 2016 marks one of Monisha's accomplishments in securing the future of the team.

As a Sauber fan, I do wonder where the team is heading in the future. I'm quite concerned knowing the team will be using Honda engines next year. To be limited by the Ferrari 2016 engine this season is certainly limiting their ability to be (more) competitive IMO.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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ringo
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Thank you and well said!!

People simply dont like the lady for being herself. Their reasons have nothing to do with how well she had done her job.

And in fact she should be commended for being a martyr in the name of given Pascal a fair chance instead of giving in to longbow.

But hey, F1 is a show and i guess people just dont like the character that is Monisha. What can you do? #-o
For Sure!!

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FW17
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Monisha Kaltenborn apparently negotiated the Honda engine for next year which would involve free engine supply and some financial support as per Joe Saward.

Not bad.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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I am curious though if that's the case if honda still supplies mclaren, as this sounds a lot like the mclaren deal. which raises the question if this will actually still happen if mclaren keeps honda.
as for kaltenborn, it was mentioned in a news article that she essentially dug her own grave when she distanced her share in sauber and when she didn't want to agree or respect the direction the technical director and longbow wanted to go, and that in the end, the conflicts became too repetitive so she got sacked.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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She had to sell her shares. It was all part of securing Saubers future.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

sauberfan
sauberfan
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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The Sauber Formula 1 team has recruited former Mercedes engineer Ian Wright as its new head of vehicle performance, with ex-Manor chief designer Luca Furbatto also set to join it.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... nical-team

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:17 pm
I am curious though if that's the case if honda still supplies mclaren, as this sounds a lot like the mclaren deal. which raises the question if this will actually still happen if mclaren keeps honda.
as for kaltenborn, it was mentioned in a news article that she essentially dug her own grave when she distanced her share in sauber and when she didn't want to agree or respect the direction the technical director and longbow wanted to go, and that in the end, the conflicts became too repetitive so she got sacked.
Could also just be a sign of how committed Honda are to getting a second team to run their PU and hence push development faster (pun intended).
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

Singabule
Singabule
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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This getting interesting, full works BAR honda is coming to spice up F1. All they need is Ross as TD and JB as driver. Bye bye MCL :mrgreen:

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etusch
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Re: 2017 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

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Singabule wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:24 pm
This getting interesting, full works BAR honda is coming to spice up F1. All they need is Ross as TD and JB as driver. Bye bye MCL :mrgreen:
jb and ts as drivers :mrgreen: