2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Zynerji
111
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Plot twist. In 2019, RBR buys "listed parts" from STR. Gearbox/ rear suspension, etc.

Raleigh
29
Joined: 29 Jul 2014, 15:36

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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McMika98 wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 17:30
Talisman wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:01
Test what?

Any extra money gained from improving their championship will be dwarfed by the money needed to improve the performance by the required amount so that is a waste of money. As for new ideas I think RBR has enough confidence in its design and testing correlation not to have to run it six months in advance, which is also six months more for the competition to look at and analyse it for themselves too.

RBR and Honda are happy with STR’s performance as it is. Doing anything more would be a waste of money. It’s not as if RBR is struggling to secure third and need STR to take points off competitors.
U need to find a job first to understand how things work in engineering. TR is one of the team with lowest budget. Given how compact the midfield is, every little makes a difference between 4th and 9th on the constructors championship. TR already have a disadvantage in running rookies at the whims of RedBull. Also its out there that Dieter Met is looking to offload the team and reduce the money he provides to both the teams.
They are wasting money by duplicating the work and designing components separately. The savings in using common parts would be in the order of millions. Also TR could easily gain some tenths by using RedBull parts.
If Red Bull is ever going to sell Toro Rosso (perhaps to Honda) they need to maintain the team’s manufacturing and knowledge base as an independent constructor.

In the meanwhile using STR to train engineering staff for Red Bull serves their purposes.

And finally, while a STR or Honda fan wants results now, Red Bull is interested only in Honda vs Renault, they have all the data on both engines and Toro Rosso’s position on track has no effect on that decision.

Talisman
2
Joined: 30 Dec 2017, 01:37

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Hold on, now you’re switching arguments completely. Now you’re talking about a HAAS like arrangement. That I don’t have a problem with although I understand that previously to make STR more attractive to buyers they made them more independent from RBR and made them design everything themselves. If they become more reliant on RBR they would save money but would become less likely to find a buyer. Only Red Bull knows which is more important for them.

BTW the extra financial benefit from going up a couple of positions isn’t as large as you might think. Certainly not as big as the investment STR would need to make to become fifth. Perhaps you should think about matters in a more business like manner.

Sorry this should be addressed to McMika’s post

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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loner wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:55
etusch wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:34
RBR = Red Bull Renault.
I think it is now AM Redbull Tag Heuer. RBT. If Honda powered RBH.
its REDBULL RACING
GhostF1 wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 06:17
Nice little onboard of Gasly overtaking an F.I. nice to hear that new engine!

https://twitter.com/gasly_fans/status/1 ... 50624?s=09
thnx rated.
the new PU is truly promising it has spunk guts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRv9wGf5pk
:lol: :lol:
Then ok

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Wouter
106
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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loner wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:55
etusch wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:34
RBR = Red Bull Renault.
I think it is now AM Redbull Tag Heuer. RBT. If Honda powered RBH.
its REDBULL RACING
@loner,

It isn't REDBULL RACING. Why are u using Caps Lock?

The official name is Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. AM-RBR.

I hope they will help Toro Rosso as much as they can, so that they can build a good car.
The Power of Dreams!

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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I can see why they didn't go with Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso this year.

HondaRaceReplica
0
Joined: 23 Sep 2017, 18:35

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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roon wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 03:35
I can see why they didn't go with Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso this year.
I think we have said this plenty of times before....Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda translates roughly into Team Red Bull Honda......

roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Subtlety has failed me again.

Talisman
2
Joined: 30 Dec 2017, 01:37

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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HondaRaceReplica wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 06:14
roon wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 03:35
I can see why they didn't go with Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso this year.
I think we have said this plenty of times before....Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda translates roughly into Team Red Bull Honda......
If Red Bull Racing is commonly reduced to RBR what would Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso be reduced to?

Talisman
2
Joined: 30 Dec 2017, 01:37

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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roon wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 08:40
Subtlety has failed me again.
Sorry I think I've spoilt it now...

HondaRaceReplica
0
Joined: 23 Sep 2017, 18:35

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Talisman wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 09:48
HondaRaceReplica wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 06:14
roon wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 03:35
I can see why they didn't go with Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso this year.
I think we have said this plenty of times before....Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda translates roughly into Team Red Bull Honda......
If Red Bull Racing is commonly reduced to RBR what would Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso be reduced to?
you must be being sarcastic because no one can be that smart....Team Honda Red bull doesn't even sound right...RBH All
day every day...

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Big Tea
99
Joined: 24 Dec 2017, 20:57

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Honda horns of a delemmer
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

NL_Fer
82
Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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Talisman wrote:
17 Jun 2018, 16:01
Test what?

Any extra money gained from improving their championship will be dwarfed by the money needed to improve the performance by the required amount so that is a waste of money. As for new ideas I think RBR has enough confidence in its design and testing correlation not to have to run it six months in advance, which is also six months more for the competition to look at and analyse it for themselves too.

RBR and Honda are happy with STR’s performance as it is. Doing anything more would be a waste of money. It’s not as if RBR is struggling to secure third and need STR to take points off competitors.
Torro Rosso uses the same suspension/gearbox concept as Redbull for years now. They have shown strong performances on non-aero tracks in the past. Any gains/developments found on the current STR Honda gearbox will help Redbull in 2019.

Also think about collecting and analysing information about the engine/gearbox, the more budget, the more people in this department. They will increase the amount of engineers, to gather as much information as possible.

User avatar
Zynerji
111
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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HondaRaceReplica wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 12:14
Talisman wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 09:48
HondaRaceReplica wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 06:14


I think we have said this plenty of times before....Scuderia Toro Rosso Honda translates roughly into Team Red Bull Honda......
If Red Bull Racing is commonly reduced to RBR what would Scuderia Honda Toro Rosso be reduced to?
you must be being sarcastic because no one can be that smart....Team Honda Red bull doesn't even sound right...RBH All
day every day...
I think he meant the funny name: SHTR

muramasa
58
Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:33

Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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NL_Fer wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 20:54
Torro Rosso uses the same suspension/gearbox concept as Redbull for years now. They have shown strong performances on non-aero tracks in the past. Any gains/developments found on the current STR Honda gearbox will help Redbull in 2019.

Also think about collecting and analysing information about the engine/gearbox, the more budget, the more people in this department. They will increase the amount of engineers, to gather as much information as possible.

That's not true, suspension has been always different bar first few years and gearbox is only about internal provided by Red Bull Technologies, not casing.

https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/amp ... 942338.jpg
https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/wp-c ... sso-01.jpg


James Key, most likely at Abu Dhabi 2017

"There's a lot more going on at STR than people think," he said. "People don't know STR, it's really frustrating.

"Although it makes a lot of sense to join together [with Red Bull] where you can, we've got our own aero department in Bicester, with our own windtunnel, and that's entirely independent because it has to be legally.

"The entire design of the car is done in Faenza - the only bit of the car that comes from RBT is the gearbox internals which are jointly designed, because there are often things that we specifically need."

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/133556


=====


Of course RBR and STR are/were collaborating on some aspects and there is clear benefit in using same engine as they themselves have been explaining and to such extent is within anyone's guess, but some opinions are going way overboard.

---

Franz Tost, Jan 2016, when STR had to change engine to the year old Ferrari for 2016 season

But a further complication for Toro Rosso is that, in no longer having the same engine supplier, there is now less cooperation that Faenza can do with Red Bull.

“Unfortunately yes,” said Tost. “For example, before we worked together on the hydraulics and now we have to do everything ourselves. Our cooperation will be less intense.”

https://www.grandprix247.com/2016/01/27 ... al-trends/



James Key, March 2018, on the effect of possible RBR-Honda deal in future for STR

“I think it’s an opportunity to work closer together on certain aspects which would be good for both teams, so in that respect I have no issues with it,”

“We have a separate deal to whatever Red Bull would have, it’s not a combined contract, it’s an STR contract for three years as a works deal. I think if Red Bull came on board it could only be added to that for us.”

“It was a decision made jointly in some way I suppose. The teams are owned by the same company and that was a company decision in that respect. I think for us to be honest we’ve been keeping up with Honda for several years. We’ve very much wanted to work with them.

“What Red Bull Racing do is ultimately their decision in the end but if we can share an engine supplier it would be very good. It’s not a tricky decision or anything like that, no.”

https://racer.com/2018/03/05/red-bull-h ... ks-status/



appx.
Franz Tost on how STR and Honda are working, China 2018

Franz, are there Honda engineers based in Faenza?

FT: No, the Honda engineers are based… some of them are based in Milton Keynes, because Honda has there as well an R&D department, but most of them are in Sakura and our engineers are flying to Sakura, to Japan when there is a special programme on the dyno or wherever because we are now much more involved also in the dyno runnings. We started already in November/December with the gearbox, and engine and gearbox tests and gearshifts and all this kind of stuff and we also are currently running a programme in Sakura.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... china.html

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