2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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marvin78
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Where do you see one exact copy?? You could say that some teams maybe take some McLaren things and make them good but probably it is just a coincidence that some parts look similar. I always thought, that this copy thing ist just an imagination when people see slightly similar structures.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:10 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:29 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm
Mclaren has to promise a good amount of money and total freedom to Newey or Brawn and of course show them a plan that will persuade them to come back. I don't see why they can't bring them back.
Newey turned down Ferrari at least twice, for a lot of money! Brawn said he didn't fancy returning to a team, I think Mclaren looked at him before Zak. If my memory serves me, Ron wanted Ross as well, before Capito was hired.
I think Newey has found his home in Red Bull, can't see him leaving, except maybe if the team is sold and he doesn't like the new structure. He's even working on hyper cars for Aston Martin.

You need to do what Ferrari did and find the Next Newey. OK, whether he's the next Newey is still a long way off but when the new regs came out Ferrari was way ahead of RBR. Basically it someone that was promoted from within.
That´s exactly their intention, but it´s easy to say and togh to accomplish :wink:

McLaren is being copied at various parts of his car, I think you can´t get a better shymptom of a good job, even if there´re some problems to solve before becoming competitive

This was one of the worst tracks for McLaren, and Alonso´s race pace was faster than Renault, or at least similar. I don´t see the situation that bad sincerely, even when the retirement was painful.


But people enjoy being hypercritical, like if any team could go from 9th in the WCC to fighting the top teams in one season :roll:

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Vasconia
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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But updates are not bringing the expected performance. Plus this car is draggy as hell, in the past they blamed the Honda PU but as we can see the problem is the car (well, the team). I am pretty sure that even with a Mercedes PU they would be the slowest team with this PU, by far.

nirvaand
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Vasconia wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:23 am
But updates are not bringing the expected performance. Plus this car is draggy as hell, in the past they blamed the Honda PU but as we can see the problem is the car (well, the team). I am pretty sure that even with a Mercedes PU they would be the slowest team with this PU, by far.
The car is not that draggy, I think you need to read the forum again. It's the suspension that's the problem, nothing to do with drag. Because of weak performance in slow speed corners, they have to run higher downforce levels than others, that is what adds drag and is why they have a slightly lower straight-line speed than Renault or RB.

!Technical
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Does anyone know the cause of Alonso's retirement?

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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nirvaand wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:27 am
Vasconia wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:23 am
But updates are not bringing the expected performance. Plus this car is draggy as hell, in the past they blamed the Honda PU but as we can see the problem is the car (well, the team). I am pretty sure that even with a Mercedes PU they would be the slowest team with this PU, by far.
The car is not that draggy, I think you need to read the forum again. It's the suspension that's the problem, nothing to do with drag. Because of weak performance in slow speed corners, they have to run higher downforce levels than others, that is what adds drag and is why they have a slightly lower straight-line speed than Renault or RB.
They ran high DF (big wing) because they had no grip in low speed corners. Besides that, not much fundamental drag

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:28 am
Does anyone know the cause of Alonso's retirement?
Lost boost pressure due to a broken charge air cooler pipe
Last edited by M840TR on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

skwdenyer
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:51 am
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:18 am
this is something that was discussed back in may but if you look at the connection of the pullrods to the rear suspension. They're alot closer to the middle that any other team I've looked at .. never understood why. I always thought that the wider apart they go the more pull you get.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deb5kgoWAAAISrY.jpg:large
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201803 ... 769d08.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXMo1DwXUAAJyBU.jpg
https://i.redditmedia.com/68lMicoibCuco ... 847d1210cd
Motion ratio, the closer to the upright the pull rod is connected, the lower the installation stiffness needed. This is because there is lower lever action. The closer inboard you locate the pull rods the higher the installation stiffness needed because the control arm introduces a lever action. The closer the pullrod is connected to the chassis relative to the upright the lower the effective spring rate. But this isn't necessarily bad, I still think the problem is aero and not suspension. Better aero will fix 80% of their issues once they get the setup sorted.
The more-inbound pull-rod position means the upper wishbone needs to have massively-greater bending stiffness. That adds unsprung weight. It is also yet another (relatively) undamped spring (bending).

Were the pull-rod mounted to the upright that effect would not exist.

The tyre is the other (somewhat) undamped spring.

In a single-wheel bump, the torsional stiffness of the gearbox-engine-tub assembly will add a further dimension, reacted to the ground through the front suspension.

So that rear suspension arrangement has at the very least added a whole extra “spring” into an already-complex system.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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techman wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:42 am
i wonder if the mclaren runs a stiff suspension. normally softer suspesion does help to get more mechanical grip but the downside is you dont get the aero to work properly. overall the mclaren was never a good car. it was always good in fast corners thats why eric usually boast about gps trace last year blaming honda for everthing but the reality they ran max drag to achieve fast cornering, but they were always lack ing mechanical grip which hondas Arai complained to mclaren in 2015 but they never did anything to fix it instead blamed Arai .funny , what goes around comes around
There was a time when mcLaren had to run a harder suspension cause the aero lost alot of df with just small amounts of movements. Not sure that is still true today.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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I'm not sure it's an aero issue ...


""The car has a weakness this year which we have already pointed out, a low-speed-corner lack of grip," said Boullier.

"And here you have only low-speed corners, I think the highest [corner] speed is 140km/h [87mph].

"We knew coming here that it would be difficult, a bit like Bahrain characteristics.

"And to compensate for this lack of low-speed grip, we have to carry more wing, which means more drag.

I wonder, how much DF can a F1 car generate below 140km/h ?
Last edited by diffuser on Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

techman
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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well from my understanding there are few ways you can get mechanical grip.
1. have a lighter car. which i believe mclaren is good at. probably one of lightest car out there. is the honda more lighter than renault?
2. running softer suspension. but the negative for this is , it does not help aero
3.. adding rear downforce. and this is what mclaren doing now at the moment. but this will cause a litte more drag.

my guess is mclaren is running more drag for sometime now because they are running a very stiff suspension. mclaren need to try different suspension setups and compare. Another problem with mclaren is that mclaren is not aero efficient compared to redbull. redbull can generate the same downforce with less wing compared to mclaren. mclaren found a scared scapegoat partner like honda to put the blame but now i think the reality now will help them to fix these issues for future. the funny thing is when i did mention this in this forum that mclaren are running more drag. i was called a troll. :P :lol:

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willmesquita
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am
!Technical wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:28 am
Does anyone know the cause of Alonso's retirement?
Lost boost pressure due to a broken charge air cooler pipe
I don't know if it's my biased view, but I think McLaren issues with suspension, pipes and etc is more recurrent than in other BIG teams.
To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone. ― Bruce McLaren

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RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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techman wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:45 pm
well from my understanding there are few ways you can get mechanical grip.
1. have a lighter car. which i believe mclaren is good at. probably one of lightest car out there. is the honda more lighter than renault?
2. running softer suspension. but the negative for this is , it does not help aero
3.. adding rear downforce. and this is what mclaren doing now at the moment. but this will cause a litte more drag.

my guess is mclaren is running more drag for sometime now because they are running a very stiff suspension. mclaren need to try different suspension setups and compare. Another problem with mclaren is that mclaren is not aero efficient compared to redbull. redbull can generate the same downforce with less wing compared to mclaren. mclaren found a scared scapegoat partner like honda to put the blame but now i think the reality now will help them to fix these issues for future. the funny thing is when i did mention this in this forum that mclaren are running more drag. i was called a troll. :P :lol:
The rear suspension that McLaren is using is heavier and stiffer than other solutions.

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Alonso Fan
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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techman wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:45 pm
well from my understanding there are few ways you can get mechanical grip.
1. have a lighter car. which i believe mclaren is good at. probably one of lightest car out there. is the honda more lighter than renault?
2. running softer suspension. but the negative for this is , it does not help aero
3.. adding rear downforce. and this is what mclaren doing now at the moment. but this will cause a litte more drag.

my guess is mclaren is running more drag for sometime now because they are running a very stiff suspension. mclaren need to try different suspension setups and compare. Another problem with mclaren is that mclaren is not aero efficient compared to redbull. redbull can generate the same downforce with less wing compared to mclaren. mclaren found a scared scapegoat partner like honda to put the blame but now i think the reality now will help them to fix these issues for future. the funny thing is when i did mention this in this forum that mclaren are running more drag. i was called a troll. :P :lol:
You were a troll, the way you conducted yourself, and apportioned all the blame on mclaren when actually the blame was more like 65% on Honda.

What we've seen in the first few races is that McLaren have lost ground in chassis development and they're having another 2016. That says a lot about last year's chassis considering the gaps to the leaders and the state of last year's engine at this time last year.

Race pace is still on par with Renault so their main issue is still qualifying and switching the hypers on. I have a feeling they'll do better on circuits with slightly harder tyres
MVRC - SHM Racing

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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techman wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:45 pm
well from my understanding there are few ways you can get mechanical grip.
1. have a lighter car. which i believe mclaren is good at. probably one of lightest car out there. is the honda more lighter than renault?
2. running softer suspension. but the negative for this is , it does not help aero
3.. adding rear downforce. and this is what mclaren doing now at the moment. but this will cause a litte more drag.

my guess is mclaren is running more drag for sometime now because they are running a very stiff suspension. mclaren need to try different suspension setups and compare. Another problem with mclaren is that mclaren is not aero efficient compared to redbull. redbull can generate the same downforce with less wing compared to mclaren. mclaren found a scared scapegoat partner like honda to put the blame but now i think the reality now will help them to fix these issues for future. the funny thing is when i did mention this in this forum that mclaren are running more drag. i was called a troll. :P :lol:
Please stop with the BS, if you don't know ask.
1- There is a minimum car weight that most cars are at, you can't go lighter. Most cars are lighter than the min weight but add Ballast to meet the min weight and get a perfect car balance.
2- Is possible if you can make it work.
3- Adding rear wing doesn't generate more Mechanical grip. It generates more and earlier(lower speeds) DF. The Mechanical grip is still the same.

Not sure why you keep harping on the Honda thing. Go to the other thread for that please.