2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Starscreamer
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Starscreamer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:30 am

I think McLaren will be better of with Renault.
Honda is still not there.. a lost year for RedBull Racing :(
#33 2 THE MAX V3RSTAPP3N

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:32 am

Starscreamer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:30 am
I think McLaren will be better of with Renault.
Honda is still not there.. a lost year for RedBull Racing :(
Still nowhere with Renault and deprived of 100s of millions. They're properly screwed.

ispano6
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by ispano6 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:01 am

Cannonballer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:25 am
It is pretty safe to say that you are the only person to doubt the additional exposure Alonso gets for his team(s) is worth the cost of his salary. It is even safer to say that you are the only person who thinks Alonso did not have a reasonable chance of winning the Indy 500 before the engine blew up. And it is definitely safe to say that you are the only person who takes issue with Alonso thinking that he is a superior driver to Alexander Rossi.
Well I guess that makes me special!

Ofcourse Alonso had a chance, he signed up with the Andretti team, something him and Zak knew would increase his chances as they were the team most equiped to win even with who you call the inferior Rossi (who hasn't even had a fair chance at F1 with all the Eurocentric arrogance that American drivers can't compete). You do realize of the drivers that Andretti fielded that year he was the least likely to win simply because he hadn't the experience the others had and he qualified 5th, behind Sato. We all know Dixon could have won the race instead of Sato, and Chevy powered Castroneves(two time runner up and 3 time winner) too if Sato's engine gave out or had he made a mistake like a few years back. But no, both Rossi and Sato's wins were a true driver-team effort calculated to be in contention for the last handful of laps, not pushing too hard and saving the car for the final stretch. Alonso made what in my opinion was a poor sport comment saying he wanted Sato's engine, as if that was the sole reason Sato won. And coming back to Rossi, his win was magical, and he created his luck by expert fuel saving, a finesse skill to run out of gas and cross the finish line coasting in neutral.

The fact that you defend Alonso's marketability just goes to show you're downing the papaya coolaid. It doesn't change the fact that McLaren is catering to Alonso and has lost its way and is more about commercialization than actually winning championships. Sure, Indy might have had more exposure and viewership when he competed thanks to his cult followers that idolize him...And? So what? Only Autosport really "benefitted" with page views of infrequent article updates of the 24hr of Lemans. Most people couldn't even watch the 24hr Lemans due to a pay wall and even if they did it probably was only to see if the Toyota curse or Alonso's curse played out in ironic fashion. Neither did and the result might as well been rigged or could have been a two car race to see if either finished.

Now that Alonso has his Lemans trophy there probably isn't a need for Zak or McLaren to pursue LMP1 and that's a blessing for McLaren to not have to be distracted or stretched thin to be in Indy, F1 and LMP all at the same time.

So, there you have it, my rant and tantrum from a cruise ship with nothing else to do but stare at the Milky Way.

FW17
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by FW17 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:08 am

Sad news as a McLaren fan

Mr. Fahrenheit
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Mr. Fahrenheit » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:11 am

M840TR wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 am
Redbull just confirmed Honda switch; such a nightmare for Mclaren. Happened exactly as predicted. They served as a mule.
Mule? Nonsense. They started out with the intention of rekindling the glory-days partnership but it became quickly apparent that Honda had to build an engine for McLaren instead of building a chassis/power-unit combination together. Honda aren't the disaster they were made out to be, McLaren aren't pulling up trees with their "best chassis of the field, let down by the engine" now they've changed engine.

We've already seen the benefit of the engine supplier and manufacturer making concessions through Toro Rosso's performances.

Honda aren't blameless and I'm sure they've learnt many things, not just technically but also organisationally especially bridging cultural gaps in development approaches. We'll see whether that's sufficient to satisfy RB.

McLaren are Williams-ing fast.

ispano6
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by ispano6 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:24 am

Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm

First of all, you can't be sure of anything Fernando thinks, unless he comes out and says it, or you read minds now? Secondly, I doubt Toyota are regretting giving him the drive, with all the positive publicity they've gotten, plus the praise Fernando got on his night stint. He obviously proved he didn't just make up the numbers. Toyota are a big company, with a corporate image, and success with Fernando didn't hurt at all. He also brought a lot more awareness and publicity to this year's event, that people would have passed off as a two horse race. So, the winners in all this were the FIA, WEC, the Le Mans organizers, Toyota, Mclaren and Fernando. I doubt any of the above woke up on Monday morning feeling guilty or sorry for themselves.
Finally, a good lesson in life is not to underestimate yourself and what you can achieve, why should Fernando feel he can't win Indy, even at the first attempt?
McLaren a winner? Care to elaborate on exactly how they contributed? Oh they let Alonso drive, as if they own him? So now you're saying McLaren mooched a win from Toyota then. Not long ago McLaren fans here had a Japanese culture bashing fest and now you have the audacity to say Toyota are winners thanks to McLaren and Alonso? The race was given to them and the pole setter was Nakajima Kazuki, not Alonso, if you didn't know.

Finally, a good lesson in life is not take credit for something you didn't do, makes you lose all credibility. Another good lesson is to some people the only important letters in "Team" are "M" and "E". Choose your team wisely.

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:55 am

max_speed wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:52 am
GoranF1 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:10 pm
Any updates anaunced for Magny Ricard? :mrgreen:
they are sacking Eric boullier. that should bring 3-4 tenth :D . he is the only bit left not performing since year 2015.

Very funny Sir :lol: =D> :lol:

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 am

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:24 am
Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm

First of all, you can't be sure of anything Fernando thinks, unless he comes out and says it, or you read minds now? Secondly, I doubt Toyota are regretting giving him the drive, with all the positive publicity they've gotten, plus the praise Fernando got on his night stint. He obviously proved he didn't just make up the numbers. Toyota are a big company, with a corporate image, and success with Fernando didn't hurt at all. He also brought a lot more awareness and publicity to this year's event, that people would have passed off as a two horse race. So, the winners in all this were the FIA, WEC, the Le Mans organizers, Toyota, Mclaren and Fernando. I doubt any of the above woke up on Monday morning feeling guilty or sorry for themselves.
Finally, a good lesson in life is not to underestimate yourself and what you can achieve, why should Fernando feel he can't win Indy, even at the first attempt?
McLaren a winner? Care to elaborate on exactly how they contributed? Oh they let Alonso drive, as if they own him? So now you're saying McLaren mooched a win from Toyota then. Not long ago McLaren fans here had a Japanese culture bashing fest and now you have the audacity to say Toyota are winners thanks to McLaren and Alonso? The race was given to them and the pole setter was Nakajima Kazuki, not Alonso, if you didn't know.

Finally, a good lesson in life is not take credit for something you didn't do, makes you lose all credibility. Another good lesson is to some people the only important letters in "Team" are "M" and "E". Choose your team wisely.
You don't seem to understand what I'm talking about Toyota winning in all this. They got more publicity, which companies thrive on, if it was so inconsequential, why did WEC/FIA adjust the schedule for Fuji on guess who's request (Toyota). Fernando had already stated that he would miss the event due to a clash with an F1 race. But Toyota made the request for the change, because it would benefit them PR-wise to have him there, not because they can't win without him. It was their call, their decision, because it was seen as beneficial to them. Nobody doubts it's a team event, everybody played a part, including Fernando.
Don't make it sound like Toyota was arm twisted in all this by Fernando or Mclaren.
Le Mans was an success for them, and their bringing in of Fernando paid off for them PR-wise, hence they win, because it was their call to bring him in. Mission accomplished.
Has Fernando or Mclaren come out to say that Toyota wouldn't have won without him? I fail to see where credit is being taken, nobody is suggesting that. They had good enough drivers and a good enough car to win without him, but he was brought in for a reason, which paid off. What's also important for Fernando is that he gave a good account of himself and contributed to an excellent team performance. Everybody wins!!
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

sn809
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by sn809 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:31 am

This news about Whitmarsh being called back by staff would be funny but in reality is just sad. He was made to leave as he was not performing although Dennis had a lot to do with it so there could be potential for a comeback.
Boullier and Mr Soso to Renault and that will be the first step back to the front.

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2392 ... ren-crisis

Vasconia
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Vasconia » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:36 am

Mr. Fahrenheit wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:11 am
M840TR wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 am
Redbull just confirmed Honda switch; such a nightmare for Mclaren. Happened exactly as predicted. They served as a mule.
Mule? Nonsense. They started out with the intention of rekindling the glory-days partnership but it became quickly apparent that Honda had to build an engine for McLaren instead of building a chassis/power-unit combination together. Honda aren't the disaster they were made out to be, McLaren aren't pulling up trees with their "best chassis of the field, let down by the engine" now they've changed engine.

We've already seen the benefit of the engine supplier and manufacturer making concessions through Toro Rosso's performances.

Honda aren't blameless and I'm sure they've learnt many things, not just technically but also organisationally especially bridging cultural gaps in development approaches. We'll see whether that's sufficient to satisfy RB.

McLaren are Williams-ing fast.
Yes, and just wait to see the disaster if Alonso leaves the team.

There was never a true collaboration between Honda and Mclaren. Plus, as I said a lot of times Honda should have begun with a smaller team just to build a good basis before jumping to a bigger team.

Anyway, what Mclaren needs now is to improve the car and build a better team because sometimes I think they are a little bit lost. And about the future they whould try to build their own engines or bring another manufacturer. Its the only way to become again a top team which can win the championship.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PlatinumZealot » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:57 am

M840TR wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 am
Redbull just confirmed Honda switch; such a nightmare for Mclaren. Happened exactly as predicted. They served as a mule.
Oh gosh what a shambles. So McLaren ditched the "GP2 engine" that was slowing down the "third best chassis on the grid" to go to an "engine they can fight with"... Only for redbull a team with the proven best chassis, to dump that same engine and pick up the "crap engine" to win championships with in yhe future. Yeah. McLaren really screwed up there. Must suck.. This surely highlights the shortsightedness of the leadership.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

ispano6
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by ispano6 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm

You are putting words into my mouth. Never did I indicate Toyota as being forced to do anything, and you obviously don't know how Toyota operates. Ofcourse they wanted to capitalize on Alonso's participation, duh...
Do you honestly believe Toyota did this in the spirit of competition? It is all a marketing ploy and the winners you speak of had zero competition outside of the sister car. Even if one car crashed and burned the second car two laps behind would have won anyway. The second car even slowed to get behind to have a photo finish formation. Toyota will do anything to maintain the image of being on top. I know this because I work with all the major car manufacturers selling cars in the United States and their intention is simply conquest.

Now back to my original question: exactly how is it a win for McLaren and what role did they serve? What branding and sponsorship did McLaren use? Why Toyota and not a privateer team? Alonso can't get close to Vettel, Hamilton, or Schumacher in championships so he's gone the complete driver route, only that he chooses to get into teams that already did the hard work. At what point did he help develop Andrettis Honda? At what point did he help develop Toyotas LMP1 car? Zero. zilch. None. That was the hard painstaking work of Sato and Kobayashi.
McLaren hasn't said it was a win for them so why are you saying it is?

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:04 pm

sn809 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:31 am
This news about Whitmarsh being called back by staff would be funny but in reality is just sad. He was made to leave as he was not performing although Dennis had a lot to do with it so there could be potential for a comeback.
Boullier and Mr Soso to Renault and that will be the first step back to the front.

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2392 ... ren-crisis
The 2nd paragraph says 'Whitmarsh stepped down as McLaren team boss in 2014, after 25 years with the Woking outfit'

Nuvolari
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Nuvolari » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:08 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Alonso can't get close to Vettel, Hamilton, or Schumacher in championships so he's gone the complete driver route, only that he chooses to get into teams that already did the hard work. At what point did he help develop Andrettis Honda? At what point did he help develop Toyotas LMP1 car? Zero. zilch. None. That was the hard painstaking work of Sato and Kobayashi.
McLaren hasn't said it was a win for them so why are you saying it is?
You must be trolling. They were the only drivers working for that team then?

:roll:

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:13 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:57 am
M840TR wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:24 am
Redbull just confirmed Honda switch; such a nightmare for Mclaren. Happened exactly as predicted. They served as a mule.
Oh gosh what a shambles. So McLaren ditched the "GP2 engine" that was slowing down the "third best chassis on the grid" to go to an "engine they can fight with"... Only for redbull a team with the proven best chassis, to dump that same engine and pick up the "crap engine" to win championships with in yhe future. Yeah. McLaren really screwed up there. Must suck.. This surely highlights the shortsightedness of the leadership.
Your counting some chickens who's shells aren't cracked yet but yeah.