2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Zynerji
Zynerji
105
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Are the teams still allowed to trade a straight line test day for full scale wind tunnel testing?

If so, I'd be sending a big package to the Windshear tunnel to see what "exactly" is going on around the actual car...

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
521
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

mwillems wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:05 pm
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
Online Stress Therapy. #77 is mediocre. W12 is the fastest car. Repeat x 1,000

User avatar
GPR-A duplicate2
167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.

mwillems
mwillems
62
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:30 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:05 pm
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
I'm questioning whether they knew about the issues before or after Spain. Putting updates on is probably the right thing to do, as whilst they don't know what the issue is, adding parts that makes the issue worse or better will help isolate where the problem is. Trial and error, not exactly F1 but it's all they seem to have right now.

Zynerji
Zynerji
105
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

GPR-A wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:30 pm
They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.
I believe the Toyota is a 50 or 60% scale, where the Windshear is 100% (actual car, not a model).

I remember a few years ago someone (Manor maybe?) was able to trade a straight line test day for a day in that tunnel.

If that is still within the rules, I think its time to get the actual car in a full sized tunnel as a correlation before doing anything else that might just make it worse.

mwillems
mwillems
62
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC

Zynerji
Zynerji
105
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

mwillems wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:19 pm
The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC
The straight-line test day trade got around that rule at the time..... I don't know if it is still a loophole that is open to be exploited.

mwillems
mwillems
62
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Zynerji wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:26 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:19 pm
The scale of car used in the wind tunnel is restricted in the rules IIRC
The straight-line test day trade got around that rule at the time..... I don't know if it is still a loophole that is open to be exploited.
Apologies i misread that. Might be a nice idea,, but they have FP1 and 2 for that. Flow vis and airflow monitors plus the in season tests, including a recent one in spain. I think they are a bit clueless in both situations. Still I'd like to know when they realised there was an issue.

Anyone have any recollection of if or when flow vis and aero monitoring frames started to focus on a given area?

Zynerji
Zynerji
105
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

I don't think the track testing is anywhere as good as putting it in a full sized tunnel. Smoke trails with high speed cameras I'm sure gives much more data than flow vis on a dirty track with cross winds.

But, not my circus, not my monkeys.

User avatar
diffuser
227
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

techman wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:04 pm
I don't think they lied to us. I think they were just wrong. there is a difference.
:lol: :lol: ok i am out and i cant stop laughing. I agree mclaren never lied and everthing they say is the truth. =D> :lol:!
Is that all it took to get rid of you ? If only I would have known!

RonDennis
RonDennis
43
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

They only positive thing about those wind tunnel problems is that the staff might produce something decent when it's fixed.

User avatar
diffuser
227
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:30 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:05 pm
If there is some mysterious shenanigans happening with the barge board, i guess that if the new nose is channeling some more air in that direction then it may have made it worse.

But after testing and after 7 races how the hell can they not see the issue? I wonder when they realised that they had a divergence between reality and the wind tunnel. Possibly after fitting the nose and doing aero tests in that area?
Because of management demands they slapped on the upgrades onto a wretched base without solving the problems there first. It's a shambles.
Really, you know that for a fact?

JoeE
JoeE
-1
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

GPR-A wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:30 pm
They should be able to use the Toyota wind tunnel, the way FI and Williams have been using. Regardless of which wind tunnel the team uses, it's the time spent that need to be tracked and not which Wind Tunnel itself. They can get a reference of where they have gone wrong and get that fixed.

I don't think the problems are just aero. They are also struggling with poor mechanical grip that makes them slower on the slow turns now, compared to a year or two back. And the organizational chaos isn't helping the matters either.
FI seem to be ok but Williams are also having correlation problems using the same wind tunnel

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13640 ... -from-role

PhillipM
PhillipM
399
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Actually FI also had correlation problems around the bottom of the sidepods near the floor early on - which is exactly where Mclaren has been running flowvis and pitiot arrays for the past 3 races.

I did wonder if they were having seperation issues as you could see on the flowvis back in Canada and Monaco, but I just put it down to the access panel/exit vent in the area at the time.

mwillems
mwillems
62
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

PhillipM wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:03 pm
Actually FI also had correlation problems around the bottom of the sidepods near the floor early on - which is exactly where Mclaren has been running flowvis and pitiot arrays for the past 3 races.

I did wonder if they were having seperation issues as you could see on the flowvis back in Canada and Monaco, but I just put it down to the access panel/exit vent in the area at the time.

So since they banged on the new nose. I wonder if it really did make it worse, if they suspected anything before and if they essentially focused their development on fixing the issue. Development will have stagnated somewhat since then in an effort to fix the issue, which would explain why we are going backwards somewhat.

But then why on earth were we competitive at Monaco? What we are being told does not add up to me. This doesn't make sense.

Supposed issues with low speed traction, but we go to a track with almost nothing but low speed traction and we produce some very good speed.

Please, someone explain how this can be the case?